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Equitable Pay for Horn Section

bluesbass99

bluesbass99

Jun 14, 2006
262
35
Atlanta, GA
www.rumblefishband.com
#1
We are a 5-pc. combo and decided to start including a 3-pc horn section (sax, trumpet, trombone) in some of our gigs. For most of the club dates, we can't afford them. For some of the higher end clubs and weddings, we will use them. They've played 4 times with us at this point with gigs on the books.

The question I have is what is considered to be fair and equitable payment for a horn section? Currently, they perform roughly one-half of songs with us. I'm basically paying them on a prorata basis, which means they would get 50% of the pay we receive since we play on 100% of the songs.

What would be considered to be reasonable if they played on 100% of the songs? For those places that can afford the horns, we've only been getting between $50-$100 for the horn section. I'm getting push back from both ends...from the regular 5 pc. band, as well as the horn section. I want to be fair and reasonable, but truthfully, if we try to get much more than $100 from the clubs, they balk, so we play those clubs as a 5 pc unit.

What is y'all's experience and what would y'all suggest?
Thanks!
 
#2
If they play on a majority or 100% of the songs, they should get an equal cut.

If the core band wants horns (I assume you're the BL and are not forcing the horns on the rest of your mates), they should share the pay equally. Do you consider a horn player to be any less of a musician than anyone in your core group? Do you think they haven't studied their instruments and honed their craft/talents any less than you? (Well, maybe the trombone player.... :hiding: )

If they show up, play well, and make the band better (and more marketable?), aren't they worth it? If I were a horn player, I'd be silly to spend my night performing for half (or whatever) a rate. Maybe someone will chime in that something is better than nothing, but why invest the time for a cut rate? Would you? Is there a union where you are? I suppose that if they play one tune out of six or so and harass the patrons, get stinking drunk/obnoxious and trash the restrooms on break, well, maybe horns weren't such a good idea after all. :help:

I'm a former trumpet player and played in a band back in the day - think Chicago, BS&T, Lighthouse, EW&F, ToP, etc. If I wasn't playing the horn, I was singing backup, mashing a tambourine or cowbell, working on the light show, and just making the band look good in general. :p

Put 'em to work. PAY 'em.

Just my $.02 worth....
 
#4
Horns add a lot to the show.

If I was the horn player, I think half pay would be fair if I were able to sit in the audience and drink, (free) during the half of the gig I don't play.

Why not use them on more, or all songs?

Edit: Oh yeah, for half pay, and free drinks while not playing, I'll refrain from getting very drunk, and repeatedly requesting loudly that the band play Mustang Sally, (even after you already played it), and also telling all the ladies: "I'm with the band".
 
#5
I'm a sax player as well as a bass player. More than half of my gigs are on sax. As a saxist, I would never accept less than what everyone else is getting paid, even if I'm playing on only half the tunes. I'm still there, and my time is valuable.
Look at it too from a jazz quartet viewpoint. In this type of situation, the horn player will play the head and a couple of solo choruses. But the rhythm section is playing constantly--at least 50% more than the horn player. In this situation I don't know of any horn players accepting less pay than each member of the rhythm section.
 
#9
I'm primarily a sax player, it doesn't matter how many tunes I play on. My time is what I get paid for.

If they are in the band pay them what everybody else is getting. If you are bringing them for some gigs and not for others, offer them what you can, they will take it or leave it.

When I'm soloing on a tune that calls for a sax do I get more money? No. Does the bass player get less because he is only playing a repetitive mindless bass line? No. You have to respect what each instrument brings to the table. The respect comes in the form of $$.
 
#12
A horn player I know told me recently that he doesn't think of it as getting paid for playing, rather he considers he gets paid for driving, setting up, soundchecking, rehearsing, waiting around, etc.

Actually I'd pay them the same as everyone else, even if they do just turn up and play and bolt. How are you going to monitor attendance, timesheets? Punchcards?!
 
#13
DylanB said:
Actually I'd pay them the same as everyone else, even if they do just turn up and play and bolt. How are you going to monitor attendance, timesheets? Punchcards?!
Click to expand...

You DEFINITELY don't want to pay them by the note, that'll just encourage the tenor player....
 
#14
I've been playing sax for 20-ish years and have never been paid 'pro-rata' - it's always been an equal cut.

If this pains you a lot perhaps a possible solution would be to find some other roles for them? Auxiliary percussion? Any of them double? Things like that. I have done all of the above from time to time.
 
#15
The general rule seems to be everybody gets an equal cut around here, whether it's the girl singer who warbles I Will Survive or the horns who wander off to the bar at inopportune times. As the poor bass player or drummer grinding away the whole night it's not the fairest thing but it's the only way to get everyone to show up, IME.
I just got to do some light Classical/Pop gigs with a String Quintet-forget being a Rhythm Section guy, I wanna be a String Player! I was remarking to the Contractor how much money we made in relation to the time and she said, "They're String Players-I can't get them out the door for less!"
 
#16
Card carrying member of the Honourable Company of Slippy Sliding Trombone Players - you book me and my mates -you pay our rates -if you don't have the dots for any more than half the songs, that's down to you - its my whole gig playing, fee earning night I'm turning up for.....and I'd much rather play for it than watch.. :)

I'd write the dots/change the list to make maximum use of the horns - my band in Scotland I play bass in has a brass section of never less than 5 and up to 12 with doublers -great sound and I write arrangements to use the brass in every way I can...all musicians ARE created equal (well, except Boy Bands) and all bring their own skills and colour to the mix - its not about the number of notes played per dollar: be a lot of even hungrier bass players around if that were the case -
I'm getting less than someone else doing the same job -I'm gone, with the previously mentioned riders of humping/providing gear etc. attracting a bonus.

Slip slidin' away......
 
#19
Pacman said:
They're there for as long as you are, they deserve the same bread.
Click to expand...

Only if they're helping with the PA and other heavy gear, too (IMHO). Time is definitely the leading concern, but, as another member said, if they're not there at least an hour before the gig helping to set up/bring stuff in and an hour after the gig helping tear stuff down/load up (or however long it may take to do either) then they aren't there the entire time.

At least on my clock :hiding:
 

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