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Double Bass Ergo Megathread part I

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I haven't plugged the thing in yet, I like practicing using my hands & technique, not so much an amp to enhance (or hide) things. Being into jazz I'm far more interested in getting a Ray Brown, Richard Davis sound, I'm not into the "arco" thing and don't see it happening anytime soon. Suggestions ?... If I replace to "factory" strings I won't have the time or funds to experiment. BTW, I have an Acoustic Image "Contra" if that will help. One other thing... will I need a pre-amp with this set-up ? Thanks.
 
I haven't plugged the thing in yet, I like practicing using my hands & technique, not so much an amp to enhance (or hide) things. Being into jazz I'm far more interested in getting a Ray Brown, Richard Davis sound, I'm not into the "arco" thing and don't see it happening anytime soon. Suggestions ?... If I replace to "factory" strings I won't have the time or funds to experiment. BTW, I have an Acoustic Image "Contra" if that will help. One other thing... will I need a pre-amp with this set-up ? Thanks.

Ray Brown and Richard Davis practiced with the bow. If you want play in tune and play anything like them so do you.
 
Damon,

I need a travel bass, and this might be the ticket, both for portability and for price. I have a couple quick questions for you.

I have read you write somewhere that you sent them specs and they matched your double bass setup, more or less. are we talking scale length, or did you get more precise with the camber of the neck?

Also what does this thing sound like completely unplugged, just a string rattling around or do you get a workable pitch, even from pizz... I am of course thinking of practice at night, or on the road, but there are times I can't imagine hauling around my GK either, so...

It's good to hear they have good tone with the bow.
 
Damon,

I need a travel bass, and this might be the ticket, both for portability and for price. I have a couple quick questions for you.

I have read you write somewhere that you sent them specs and they matched your double bass setup, more or less. are we talking scale length, or did you get more precise with the camber of the neck?

Also what does this thing sound like completely unplugged, just a string rattling around or do you get a workable pitch, even from pizz... I am of course thinking of practice at night, or on the road, but there are times I can't imagine hauling around my GK either, so...

It's good to hear they have good tone with the bow.

I practice unamplified all the time on mine. I have even played sections during a gig with the amp off, ppp but it still sounded.
I did not send him specs for the camber mainly because I first got a 6 string and then a 7, but it matches up pretty well with my double bass yet different enough to be it's own thing.

As for practicing with the bow, it is either that, wait 20+ years of hacking it out pizz, or be an actual genius, those are the only three I have ever heard of working out.
There is a scientific reason that has been gone over on many threads:
You only get the fundamental vibration on the first vibration of the string, then it gets clouded with overtones.
The bow extends the fundamental, so you can hear the correct pitch.
The goal is for your muscle memory to get to the point where your ear can help you, with in about a hair.
 
After reading this whole thread I recently bought a 4-string Ergo from Jesse. I wanted it to mimic my DB for practicing (mostly arco) late at night or when I'm away from the DB. I have to say that it does the job quite well. It's plenty loud enough to practice without the amp, but not loud enough to hear in the next room. It sounds great through my GK MBS-150 with flat EQ, and better with fdeck's HPF-Pre preamp to mitigate the high impedance. As far as pizz playing goes, it doesn't sound like my DB, nor does it sound like an electric. My roommate said it sounds "like the 80s" (as in Ron Carter in the 80s, for example), and I would agree. This might have something to do with the fact that I'm using Spirocore Mittels. When played arco, I think it sounds almost exactly like a DB, which made me very happy. The only modifications I made were changing the strings, altering the stand, and attaching the preamp.

Strings: I replaced the stock strings with some 3/4 Spirocore Mittels, because I just happened to have an old set around. I tried tying knots in the ball-end of the strings like speedster suggested, and this worked really well. Apart from that, all I had to do was clip off some of the top end of the string so that I could put it in the tuners. No soldering or razor blades required. This method also worked with some ancient Corellis (G, D, and A) that I put on previously. I snapped the Corelli E string when I didn't tie a knot in the ball end, and tried to wrap the steel around the tuner using the entire length of the string.

Stand: I was considering three options for the stand. The first was to just use a tripod stand flat on the floor and angle the bass relative to the stand. If you don't want to replace the attachment on the bass itself, the Pearl B70W Cymbal Boom Stand looks like the best bet for this. It's basically the same stand the Ergo comes with but with a boom attachment on top that fits the Ergo's stock attachment. I tried it out at Drummer's World, but the bass kept rotating in the clamp no matter how much I tightened it since the boom arm (i.e. the piece connected to the Ergo) is smooth. If I had bought it I think I could have just scored the boom arm to make it rough and give it some traction. This stand has the same wobbly problems of the stock stand, of course, but the top of it fits into DW cymbal stands, which are slightly less wobbly. I eventually came to realize that the bass was just going to be a little wobbly no matter what. I'm sure this is a problem with any stick-type EUB, since the NS basses I've played also wobbled a fair amount on their stands.
My second option was to make an endpin. This is what I settled on. First, I just took the stock stand apart by removing the set screw in the bottom of the stand and knocking the pole out of the base with a hammer. I then had just the two-piece pole to work with. I was able to tighten this at several points with a small allen wrench, and that seemed to help a bit. I bought a Pearl HA-95L clamp and a Gibraltar SC-LBM L-rod ball joint from Drummer's World to use as a body rest. That worked really well, and I was able to use another clamp to simulate the lower body of the bass that I rest against my leg. I use a rock stop (actually a slipper) so that the endpin stays put. The Ergo hardly moves at all like this, and it feels a lot like playing my upright. I can play it arco or pizz without using my left hand at all. The only drawback seems to be that it looks like a medieval torture device.
The third option was to put the body rest on the tripod and tilt the tripod toward me. This actually wasn't quite as sturdy as the endpin option, since the tripod is so wobbly. But your mileage may vary, especially if you want to invest in a different tripod.

Preamp: I got fdeck's HPF-Pre preamp to deal with the high-impedence signal, and it works great. I used some adhesive velcro to attach it to the back of the Ergo itself above the stand. It's pretty secure, and I can remove it whenever I want to use it with my double bass or rotate it whichever way is convenient.

All in all, I'm very happy. I'll try to get some pics and sound samples up as soon as I can find a friend with a digital camera and decent recording equipment. A big thanks to Jesse and everyone who shared their experiences on this forum!
 
I don't remember if it was Roberta Flack's "Quiet Fire" album or not (I'm thinking it was), but even with the "factory" strings (which is all I have at this point) I had the same "Ron Carter" impression as "Coldsalmon", there is just a certain decay and thumpiness to it that seems recognizeable. Not a bad thing.
 
I went with the high action. Is that still lower than a real DB? I probably have time to change the details with Jessie if I need to go higher. I definitely want the closest to DB sound - I hate the fretless electric sound.
 
My action is 6mm (G) - 10mm (E) at the second octave. It's quite playable and sounds great. I've attached two sound samples of pizz and arco playing for your listening pleasure.

Damon - do you do anything to the EQ to modify the sound? The only thing I did was turn the highs down to about 10 o'clock. I would agree that it sounds like an amplified DB, but there's still a little something missing in the sound for me. Perhaps I should just change to Flexocor '92s, like on my DB.

Artfahie - are you using a preamp? It really makes the sound a lot smoother and more DB-like.
 

Attachments

Here's a camera-phone picture of the endpin body-rests I made with the Pearl HA-95L clamp and Gibraltar SC-LBM L-rod ball joint. Yes, that is a vice grip on the lower clamp.
 

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  • Ergo endpin.jpg
    Ergo endpin.jpg
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I just twist the knobs on my GK until is sounds good. I found mine "opened up" like a double bass around the 6 month mark. It is a solid block of wood so a little age and playing should make it sound better. I have a little more wood mass and more resonance due to the 3 extra strings, like a double bass you get sympathetic vibrations if you don't lean on the strings when you play pizz.
 
Artfahie - are you using a preamp? It really makes the sound a lot smoother and more DB-like.

No, I just plugged it straight into an AI Contra, it's an amazing amp (I have GK for my EB's)... I don't know whether to spend the next money on Spiratones or a pre-amp.... I'm just too "new" with this instrument to make an educated choice. One thing though, this thing is easy to play & I actually enjoy it more than my electrics (and I have 3 nice ones). Let me know your thoughts. Thanks.
 
According to Bob Gollihur, you shouldn't need a preamp for the Contra:

http://gollihurmusic.com/faq/11-PREAMPS_DO_YOU_NEED_A_PREAMP_WITH_YOUR_URB_PICKUP.html

You said earlier that you want more of an old school "Ray Brown, Richard Davis sound". You might want to try orchestral strings for that, rather than Spirocores. I know that Francois likes orchestral strings on his EUBs; he says it counteracts an EUB's natural brightness. I myself have Flexocors (not Original Flexocors) on my DB. I just put Spirocores on my Ergo because I happened to have them lying around (I took them off my DB because I didn't like them). If you want some good DB strings for a relatively low price, I would try 1/2 size Corellis. Jesse says they fit perfectly without modification. They're not as dark as most orchestral strings from what I remember, though. If you want to spend a bit more, I would suggest the Flexocors. But I would definitely go with new strings rather than a new preamp if you have an Acoustic Image Contra.
 
Thanks, I could use some advice with the strings, it's not like you can test drive them before laying out $$$$. My "Contra" really is amazing, I'll bring it to use with my EB's & play against drums & a couple of guitars and still be heard in a practice session... I'm getting to be too much of an old fogey to cart my GK around (1x15, 2x10) without a good reason. I'll give the more expensive strings a try although it's too bad the Spiracores need work to be installed, a couple of reviews mentioned the "Ray Brown" sound in them. I see Ron Carter has a LaBella string attached to his name, he's great, but I just dumped a brand new set of LaBella James Jamison strings (on my '57 P) because they played like reed-bar, geez I hated them... went back to the ThomasStik on it and am much more happy (and articulate). I was brought up on LI and played clubs out there many, many years ago. First rock (naturally), then a piano trio thing... then a 30 year coma while I raised a family... now it's just for fun, I like it better this way, no pressure. Thanks again for the info.

Art Fahie
Maine
 
If you want some good DB strings for a relatively low price, I would try 1/2 size Corellis. Jesse says they fit perfectly without modification. They're not as dark as most orchestral strings from what I remember, though.

The nickel ones are darker than the tungsten's, and even cheaper.
The 1/2 size nickel set is only available in medium gauge though.
Its number is 300A.

I'm still experimenting with strings...
These days, I'm trying some steel full-core models, like Red Labels and Stellars (both from Super-Sensitive)
 
I'll give the more expensive strings a try although it's too bad the Spiracores need work to be installed, a couple of reviews mentioned the "Ray Brown" sound in them.
Ray would have had the same sound with any string.
A good part of the equation is the player himself!
I see Ron Carter has a LaBella string attached to his name, he's great, but I just dumped a brand new set of LaBella James Jamison strings (on my '57 P) because they played like reed-bar, geez I hated them...

He's using the 7710 set; black nlyon on steel rope-core.

The James Jamison BG strings set is very heavy gauge.
They offer many other sets!
 
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