Double Bass Ergo megathread part II

[gscroggin]

Yes, I thought about doing that, until I realized I'd also have to drill out the center hole in the tuning head to seat the end of the cut string. That was when I decided trimming/soldering the string was better for the moment. Removing that much material from the stock tuning head worried me. And it seems you have already taken my next steps. Thanks!

While the material removal didn't end up being a problem on the tuner, I can tell you widening the hole was; I broke off a drill bit in one of them! So there goes X dollars for a tuner...fortunately, all the tuners I was using were inherited, so there wasn't really any cost loss on my end. Still a dumb move on my part though.

Moral of the story; take your time and use the right tools for the job. I was very careful re-slotting the tuner and did it with a hand metal file. When it came to drilling out the hole though, I was a bonehead...grabbed my hammer drill, used a bit that was lying on my bench, and went to town

AFTER I broke the bit in the first tuner, I slowed down, used a low power drill (the tuners are only aluminum), and a carbide bit. I'll take some pics of the finished results and the rear bridge/string tree and post them.

 

[kozmikyak]

Ah, gotcha. Another option (unless I'm completely misunderstanding what you're saying) is to file out the string groove on the tuning head to accommodate DB strings. That's what I did since I had already decided to replace the tuners with Gotoh's. I also added a piece on the back side of the bass for securing the strings, to deal with the extra length on many DB strings (to avoid needing to cut them so I can swap back and forth between the Ergo and my real DB).

Also, one can often get by without soldering strings. Plain super glue is often not enough, but I'll take a piece of very, very thin cloth, and spread a very thin amount of super glue along it, and glue it around the string like a fake silk. Then unwind the portion above it.

I've had to do the string shuffle on my cello, but to be fair, I asked for a non-standard scale--not cello scale, not bass scale, nothing really matches, so I took on that responsibility. I find unwound strings work fine if they're stabilized.

 

[kissmybASS01]

I'm reporting on the success of another "tom holder" stand mod (original post quoted below for convenience) to my beloved 5-string EUB. Keep reading if you are interested in a few tidbits I gathered along the way.

First, in a side discussion with Jesse, I learned that he is not currently planning to make this tom holder connector standard equipment. It comes down to price, which he's making every effort to keep low, so Ergos are affordable for as many of us as possible! The tom stuff is an additional $70-80 of stuff all told, in addition to the cost of the stand itself, which has already nearly doubled for Jesse. Wood and everything else keep going up too. The bottom line is that if you want basses at the current prices, order soon! I'm guessing we're close to the deadline for getting one made in time for HannuChrisKwanzSolstice, so don't delay, make it a merry holiday for both you and the Blue family. I still enjoy making people guess the price of my bass (when they ask) and then seeing their jaws drop when I tell them it was well under $1000, soup to nuts.

OK, some other things related to construction that I didn't see anywhere else:
- To leave in the original post or not? The original modder (kissmybASS01) said it was so loose he removed by hand. Another (Marc61) said he just left the post in there. Me, I was able to get it out by applying a big wrench to the cymbal stand connector and twisting. It popped right out for me, with no wood damage, but I was advised by Jesse to leave it there if the wood started to creak.
- For me, putting the tom holder joint directly in the top of the old cymbal stand (i.e. not having the Pearl AX-20 horizontal connector) was too short, so I did get that part and add it.
- To leave the plastic ring under the BT-3 that attaches to the bass, or not? I left it on as a gasket and also used it (at the advice of kissmybASS01) as a template to drill the holes.
- Put the BT-3 connector on the bass upside down or not? I oriented it so that the hand screw is oriented down and away from where my right hand plucks. Not that I think my hand would ever hit it, but hey, out of sight, out of mind.
- I pre-drilled the holes for the screws, then again at the advice of kissmybASS01, I used the cordless drill at low torque to screw them in. I started low and then cranked it up just enough to get the screws down tight, but no more than that.

I hope this info helps. In retrospect, the biggest obstacle for a non-craftsman type such as me was getting up the courage to drill into a perfectly good musical instrument!

Glad it all worked out : )

 

[okcrum]

AFTER I broke the bit in the first tuner, I slowed down, used a low power drill (the tuners are only aluminum), and a carbide bit. I'll take some pics of the finished results and the rear bridge/string tree and post them.

Oh. Yeah, cutting aluminum is like cutting butter. It really tends to clog abrasives and tool channels, dull conventional cutters, and bind while cutting. Even with the best cutting fluids you have to slow down.

Thanks for the tips, and the warning on the tuners.

 

[jayscheuerle]

I picked up a used Ergo4 a couple months ago as I was finishing a build on a stick-bass with an acoustic chamber to use as an unamplified practice instrument. The cheapie "Patrick" strings that I got off of ebay for $22 sound horrendously twangy and open, while the ones on the Ergo have a dull, but fuller thump (unamplified). I'd like to buy a set of those strings for my bass (don't want to pull them off the Ergo as I'm selling it to a friend), but I'm not sure what kind they are (if they're the originals).

They have blue wrappings on the bottom with gold balls, and each string has a different color up top.

Also, they're MUCH shorter in overall length than the Patrick ones (that's a plus). Are these full 3/4 bass strings or are they 1/2 size ones?

Any help in identifying these (or even better, anyone that wants to get rid of theirs) would be appreciated. Thanks! - j

 

[Francois Blais]

I think Jesse usually fit the Ergos with Super-Sensitive Red Labels.
These have red silk at the bottom, not blue.

 

[Pro Stock John]

Stumbled upon a used lefty Ergo 4 only 2 miles from my house on CL, I LOVE it. Fun to play, and I'll be doing Primus'y, progressive stuff on it. Sounds great with distortion!!!

Link Removed.

 

[kozmikyak]

I finally _did_ capture a full show's worth of lead and bass cello on the new Ergo cello.

Enchanted Ape at Lutsen, 12/01/2012

You'll have to navigate into "live shows/" to get to the folder. I just selected a few representative examples, nobody wants to listen to 3 hours worth of show. It's our first show after 1.5 years of hiatus so we're a bit rusty.

This is the first time I've gotten to use my E-cello as a bass instrument, through a large PA, with a decent engineer, with a decent place to put my recorder. I recorded with the cheapest Zoom recorder (H1), at 24 bits, and did a tiny bit of multiband compression to tighten up the bass some.

I'm definitely happy with the bass tone I'm getting. It isn't _loud_ in the mix, but it's always _present_. The lowest octave isn't super strong in the fundamental, but definitely sounds different from the octave above. I could allow more of the low fundamental into the signal, actually; I'm currently attenuating stuff below 100Hz quite a bit.

On a few of these tunes I did switch to lead with the bow, while our keyboardist used a simulated Rhodes bass to hold down the low end.

As to Red Label strings--I don't know what Jesse puts on the basses himself, but I use Red Label strings for the middle 4 (A-D-G-C) on my E-cello, and I used them on my previous NS Design cello too. They're considered a budget string, but I find them to work really nicely on electric instruments. On an electric instrument you can always cut the treble a bit if you think the strings are too gnarly sounding, but it's hard to add that "cutting" sound back in if it isn't there. I've tried high-end strings on my E-cellos and not had good luck with them.

 

[Oneirogenic]

The A string on my Ergo 5 makes a somewhat loud percussive sound when you initially pluck the string. The other strings don't do this. I've messed with piezo placement, made a new solid shim and tried different techniques. The sound is more pronounced if I use the side of my finger for pizz as opposed to using the pads of my index and middle finger. No discernible unwanted sounds from Arco other than my poor technique anybody have any idea what is causing this?

 

[DoubleMIDI]

If it is only one note or a region on this string I would say the fingerboard is not plan.
If it is the open string only the nut might be a bit too low fo the A.

If the A on the E string makes the same kind of noise it is some kind of resonance somewhere on your bass. Try to locate the buzzing sound then. Maybe the tuner screw.

 

[Oneirogenic]

Its every note only on the A string. I think it has got to be something with the bridge or piezo but can't quite figure it out. When unplugged there is no such sound. The sound is very similar to the sound of hitting the strings with your hand to create a thudding percussive sound, it is not the sound of the string hitting the fingerboard.

 

[DoubleMIDI]

What are your string heights (fingerboard to string distance) at the end of the fingerboard?
Maybe the string height is a bit low for the A?

If you have some other A string, does it buzz the same way too? It might be a defective string if not.

But it is strange that this doesn't happen acoustically (in the two cases above it should happen acoustcally too). Maybe an amp or pickup issue. Maybe the bridge doesn't sit correctly on the pickups (angled?)?

 

[Oneirogenic]

That's a tricky question considering the entire body of an Ergo is a fingerboard. The fingerboard technically extends all the way to bridge although I'm sure you run out of useful and logical notes way before you get that far I'm leaning towards a piezo issue but I've been messing with the piezo seating with no real change in results. I will try making a shim that raises the action a bit more. I'd prefer a bit higher anyways to get less mwah sound.

 

[gorang7]

Does anyone have idea on how to remove and fill inlay dots. I figured out I'm relying on them too much so I'd like to make dots "invisible".

For beginning, I'd like to remove top three or four, my Ergo is burst, so top two are on black and others are on lighter wood colour surface.

 

[Oneirogenic]

Does anyone have idea on how to remove and fill inlay dots. I figured out I'm relying on them too much so I'd like to make dots "invisible".

For beginning, I'd like to remove top three or four, my Ergo is burst, so top two are on black and others are on lighter wood colour surface.

You could color them in with a Sharpie... or take a drill and very slowly and carefully drill the inlay dot out. Don't take me seriously though, I'm no expert.

 

[Oneirogenic]

So I just got a bow a week ago and have been playing around with until I start my lessons in January. There seems to be an issue though... my Ergo is a 5 string with a high C. The issue appears to be that radius on the bridge is not setup optimally for bowing. I can bow the open strings without too much trouble but bowing stopped notes more than four or five semitones above the open A, D, and G strings is damn near impossible without hitting a neighboring string. I measured the height of the strings and they all measure 9mm. That doesn't seem right.... is there anything I can do to fix this or do I need to get a new bridge carved?

 

[DoubleMIDI]

I play a five string with a high C (acoustic and electric DB).

My string heights are about 6mm on high C and 9 to 11 mm on E on the acoustic bass, the middle strings in between.
With an acoustic double bass there is the problem of the limited total angle for bowing, so with five strings you have less bowing angle for each string than on a four string instrument.
With soid body EUB you don not need to have this problem, but if you are used to an acoustic five string, you might want to have (more or less) the same angles.
Also the fingerboards are often pre-carved for acoustic basses. If you round them more, you will loose the edge on the left and right of the fingerboard (and it is a lot of work to do that). OK, you don't have this with the Ergo, but you will loose some wood and probably also some stability by removing that wood.
It is true, that you cannot play in thump position on the G string with the bow, because you will hit the D and/or C string too. So you cannot play every literature that was written for a G as the highest string in the same positions and ignore the high C string. Classical players might get problems with that.

But you may lower the D, G and C strings a bit and don't touch the fingerboard.
(Starting with the high C and bring it down to 7mm first, then adapt G and D string height. Since you cannot make the bridge higher, you may lower the high C to 6mm in a second turn if needed.)
But lowering the strings may make your strings buzz on the fingerboard if it is not plan.
I had this problem on the high C and it was really difficult to get rid of the buzz. So don't go too low.

 

[gorang7]

You could color them in with a Sharpie... or take a drill and very slowly and carefully drill the inlay dot out. Don't take me seriously though, I'm no expert.

Thanks Oneirogenic. I suppose I'll just colour those inlay dots. I'm not confident enough to drill them out.

 

[kozmikyak]

I'm getting my finances together for a second 7-string Ergo cello, if he'll agree to build it. Might have to wait until tax return time, unfortunately, but it will be done.

This time around, all the experimentation I did to get the previous one working how I want, won't be an issue. I know to specify some things to be done the way I want, and the other items that I need to take care of myself will go quickly and smoothly, I think.

 

[cjp3044]

Just felt the need to give Jesse another thumbs up. I've had my Ergo 4 since mid-2011. It's a beautiful instrument -- mine is the classic finish with no frills. It came set up and ready to play (after tuning it of course) and sounds wonderful. The only issues I have had were the E string would like to pop off the bridge and the stock stand was very wobbly.

In the case of the E string, all it took was a large nut file to (very) carefully deepen the notch for the string (suggested by Jesse, or he also said I could trace the bridge and send that to him and he would make me a new one). If you aren't comfortable doing the filing yourself or you do not have the right tools, you could take it to (almost) any place that does guitar repairs and any decent guitar tech could deepen the groove a little and probably wouldn't charge much. I was probably popping the E string out mostly due to my poor right hand technique but I have been doing a little rockabilly slapping so hitting the string pretty hard.

As for the stand -- I have read all about the tom mount stand that some people here are doing, looks like a good solution, but again, I contacted Jesse and he recommended the Pacific CS-800 straight cymbal stand available for around $40 - $45. The piece that is attached to the Ergo is just epoxied (JB Weld red and black tubes) in -- I tried to use the original stand for leverage to to break the piece free, but I broke the original stand! So I used large pliers and a little finesse and once that initial bond is broken, the piece comes out quite easily. The Pacific CS-800 is MUCH sturdier and more heavy duty than the stock stand -- you just have to use a hack saw to cut off the threads and epoxy the top piece back into the Ergo. Very solid.

Jesse has been a joy to work with and the craftsmanship is marvelous. The bass plays and sounds fantastic, and oh yeah, where else you gonna get a great playing, great sounding EUB for this little $$ outlay? I've played Palatino, Stagg and even the low end of the NS design stuff and they don't hold a candle to the Ergo.

Picture is me playing my Ergo at a gig just before New Years -- no comments on my stance or technique please!