ES-335 bass build

[Slidlow]

Did some homework tonight. Laid out the neck profile and tenon as well. This is a 860 mm scale bass (33.858"). The neck will be a slight profile taper @ 0.4 degrees (if my math is correct). I will also set the neck break angle at ~ 3 degrees (2.9 to be exact, as it works out).

A few questions here, if I can get the LC brain trust here to weigh in please.

QUESTION 1: the tenon in my diagram (shaded brown). I've seen cases where some are cut from separate stock and glued to bottom of neck. While others (most?) cut the entire tenon/neck as one piece. Is there a reasoning to take one approach vs other? For me, if I do the former (separate piece and glue to neck), I could actually get two necks out of the laminate stock I fabricated. Also it seems easier to cut and glue --- but just a guess.

QUESTION 2: How far does the tenon need to extend into the body? In my diagram, I've labeled it as distance "T".

View attachment 3289524

Hi there, Structurally it doesn't matter if the heal is one piece with the neck or glued on. Lots of makers glue up the heel stock especially for acoustics with deep heels. I've done it on a few acoustics myself. I am probably going to start doing it with neck through builds as well to better utilize wood stock. As for the tenon length I expect around 3" would be a minimum but others may have closer specs from actual instruments.

 

[83_Silberpfeil]

Thanks for feedback Slidlow. I looked back at the plans I had for ES335 (Epi Dot). On this version of the ES335, the neck/body joins right under 19th F --- see vertical dashed line below. The tenon extends ~ 2.75" into the body (see longer red line). The thinner portion of the tenon (flat with the p/u route) extends 1" beyond where the fretboard ends.

I think this gives me good guideline, along with Slidlow's suggestion above.

 

[hypercarrots]

keep in mind the balance. if you have the neck mounted too far out youll have neck dive. too far in, youll have trouble accessing the high frets for perfect kiss

mine is 34" scale and neck dives like crazy

 

[83_Silberpfeil]

Bank holiday today. Spent a few moments on the bass. The solid neck stock, now became two neck blanks. I resaw'd using a table saw --- 3/4" depth at a time, then flip end over end, and repeat. My table saw spec says blade can cut up to 3/5" depths, but with hard maple, and a small motor. I thought I'd take it slow. Quite pleased with cut. Not perfect, but lots other things could have gone wrong.

The solid stock I fabricated almost a year ago. Measured almost a square cross section ~ 2-2/3" X 2 7/8". Inspecting the laminate here, I think the middle strip of maple could be a bit narrower, as could the Mahogany strips. At the nut end I'll end up seeing the middle maple and the mahog strips --- and maybe just a sliver of the outer maple

Resaw'd into two blanks. Not quite 1/2 - 1/2, but almost. If I had been more experienced, and had access to better tool/machines (like at the woodshop where I was a member), I could have got 3 blanks out of this. Will need to plane the inside/resaw'd faces to true up outer faces. Guess now's the time that I really need to make my router planing jig. Which would come in handy for upcoming step (few steps ahead) --- routing the truss rod channel.

Very pleased with the end grain on the blanks --- not perfect quartersawn. But, I'd say pretty good for a first build.

 

[Slidlow]

Bank holiday today. Spent a few moments on the bass. The solid neck stock, now became two neck blanks. I resaw'd using a table saw --- 3/4" depth at a time, then flip end over end, and repeat. My table saw spec says blade can cut up to 3/5" depths, but with hard maple, and a small motor. I thought I'd take it slow. Quite pleased with cut. Not perfect, but lots other things could have gone wrong.

The solid stock I fabricated almost a year ago. Measured almost a square cross section ~ 2-2/3" X 2 7/8". Inspecting the laminate here, I think the middle strip of maple could be a bit narrower, as could the Mahogany strips. At the nut end I'll end up seeing the middle maple and the mahog strips --- and maybe just a sliver of the outer maple
View attachment 3291067

Resaw'd into two blanks. Not quite 1/2 - 1/2, but almost. If I had been more experienced, and had access to better tool/machines (like at the woodshop where I was a member), I could have got 3 blanks out of this. Will need to plane the inside/resaw'd faces to true up outer faces. Guess now's the time that I really need to make my router planing jig. Which would come in handy for upcoming step (few steps ahead) --- routing the truss rod channel.
View attachment 3291068

Very pleased with the end grain on the blanks --- not perfect quartersawn. But, I'd say pretty good for a first build.
View attachment 3291069

Anything from 80 to 90 degrees is quartersawn. Your blanks look fine.

 

[83_Silberpfeil]

Was a busy afternoon. Felt it was productive, but there wasn't any progress on bass build to show fore. It was a jig build afternoon. About 90% there. Then, will router-plane the neck blank.

 

[83_Silberpfeil]

Pretty much done with the router planing jig. Just need to finish last step -- drill some holes on the walls to insert some 1/4" bolts (and nuts) to secure the work piece.

Lined things up with my neck blank/stock to see how everything fits and measure up. Originally had the mortising bit installed in the router, but it came up a bit short by ~ 3/8" or may be 1/2". Tried my top bearing flush rim bit, and it works fine with plenty of reach/depth remaining.

Certainly the top bearing flush trim bit is ideally meant for this job/cut, as the mortising bit is --- but I think it should be OK, it will do the job.

 

[83_Silberpfeil]

Finally. Planing jig completed. Looks pretty good, work piece secure. Ready to do some router-plane'n!
Next update, the two neck stock/blanks will be flat/level! Then: scarf joint, followed by truss rod. Woo hoo!!!

 

[83_Silberpfeil]

Finished planing one of the blanks. Took a while since I used a 1/2" dia cutting head. The blank was ~ 42". Here's a foto I took of the progress. Forgot to snap a foto after finishing.

 

[83_Silberpfeil]

Finally got the courage to make the scarf joint cut. Carefully measured and marked the 13 degree line on the neck. Tried to use blocks and clamps to rig a jig to help ensure a straight cut along the marked 13-degree line. But in the end, just eyeball'd it and proceeded very slowly.

I thought that the initial blade neck blank contact was the most difficult part. Trying to align the neck at a perfect angle as the wood meets the blade. In the end, as you can see in the 3rd and 4th foto below, the face of the scarf cut turned out pretty good. But, the leading edge that met the blade was far from a straight 90-degree from the sides. Will have quite some planing/sanding to do.

I really like this scarf joint sanding jig from Fletcher Guitars on youtube. Think I'll build one of those.

A fairly clean cut

The 4 TPI blade was the right knife for the job

Not digital scale perfect, but analog acceptable

Will definitely need to sand/plane down the faces for a good gluing surface

 

[83_Silberpfeil]

Today was a jig day. Made the 13-degree scarf joint planing jig today. Built it on top (inside) the neck blank planing jig.

For the rails (13-degrees), I used 3/4" plywood. 6" tall and about 20" long. I marked a 13 degree line, cut with bandsaw, then clamping a straight edge on the work piece just along the 13-degree line, I used the router joint a clean edge. Then use that piece as template for the second rail piece.

1/4" nuts and bolts come in really handy to secure the work piece (scarf headstock and scarf neck piece).

Tomorrow, I will use the jig and plane the two scarf surfaces. I think the critical part will be to align the neck/headstock perfectly along the centerline/axis of the jig.

 

[Spidey2112]

The more details you figure out up front, the fewer problems you'll have with your project.

So true.

 

[83_Silberpfeil]

More progress, real progress this time. Planed down and glued the two scarf joint surfaces. Could not have done these critical steps of the build without the help and references here on LC. Thanks so much everyone!!!

Might be very intuitive for more experienced builders here, but was not obvious to me at the start. Marked these 'square' lines to check the straightness/square of the planing. Learned this from one of @HaMMerHeD posts. Thanks!!!

Not perfect, but I think close enough --- I guess I could have made a few more passes, adjusting and refining the blank each time. But I thought that the scarf joint line will be under the fretboard on one side. The back side will be on back of the neck --- I will need to cut down the neck and headstock thickness anyway, so a little bit off, I can live with. Good enough!

Pencil marks again --- this time for guiding position during gluing of two surfaces back together

Not perfect, barely good enough. I think I will need to re-plane or joint the top surface again ---- before doing the truss rod. I thought I had a good set-up.
Clamped each piece to the table super tight --- away from joint. Then slowly clamped the glued scarf joint portion with three clamps --- distributed and slowly tightening each. The slight movement was unavoidable, with that much glue and squeeze out. Something had to slip. I would prefer to replane the top surface of neck than to use less glue (avoide movement/slip) and potentially joint failure.

 

[83_Silberpfeil]

Question for the experienced builders on the scarf joint. Are epoxy glue/adhesives "thinner" and less viscous? Does using epoxy for the scarf joint eliminate or greatly reduce this "slipping" issue?

Thanks!

 

[Beej]

In my experience, yes and no. Epoxy can still slide in a joint, but you don't need to use nearly as much clamping force with epoxy to get a solid joint, so it's less likely to happen. I also usually clamp with jig that holds things in place to help address slippage.

 

[83_Silberpfeil]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts Beej. I think I will use scrap wood and simulate a scarf joint, cut and glue-up using epoxy --- just to try it out.

 

[Freekmagnet]

Question for the experienced builders on the scarf joint. Are epoxy glue/adhesives "thinner" and less viscous? Does using epoxy for the scarf joint eliminate or greatly reduce this "slipping" issue?

Thanks!

I’ve made 3 necks with scarf joints, and each time I’ve used epoxy. I haven’t had trouble with slippage, but I usually leave a little extra wood on the FB side of the neck and re-plane the surface. Some would say it’s a sloppy approach, but I’d call it foolproof. Also, when I clamp, I lay the neck pieces on their sides and clamp from the sides first.

My buddy uses TiteBond for his scarf joints, but sprinkles a little salt on the glue area before clamping. He says it keeps it from slipping.

 

[83_Silberpfeil]

Does the cutterhead on a jointer have a disengagement /release point that I should be looking for? Do I need to disengage/release in order to set (or install) the knives?

Watching videos on youtube, like this one here at the 6:55 mark, the cutterhead looks to move freely.


I brought out my jointer from storage in the garage. It is a Delta 37-071 6-1/8" that I acquired from CL two summers ago.

I want to joint the faces of the neck blank, but first wanted to check/verify that the knives are installed straight, and does not have nicks.

I'm able to see the first knife, but the cutter head does not turn freely. There seems to be some resistance due to a tight belt. With leather gloves I am able to rotate it about 1/3 of a turn clockwise (to the right). But am afraid to force it further.

 

[Gilmourisgod]

My Jet jointer doesn't have any kind of cutter head lock, though my thickness planer does. When you remove the dust shroud, it releases a little lever that snaps down into the cutter head at each blade location. Did you take the blade guard off? Might be a similar gadget at work. I have seen where people put a clamp on the drive belt to effectively stop the head rotation, I just drive a wooden wedge in there while I'm working on it. If it's not an old jointer, you might still find instructions for it online. If it's not rotating, open it up and look for something hanging it up. I have one of the magnetic blade alignment tools that holds the blades dead flush with the outfeed table, though you still have to watch for any creep as you tighten up the blade lock screws.

 

[83_Silberpfeil]

Thanks for the suggestion @Gilmourisgod . I do have the manual PDF doc. I checked the blade/knife changing and aligning sections. There's no diagram nor discussions on any levers to disengage cutterhead from belts/drives. Instruction says to use scrap wood as a jam to secure blade guard away from the cutterhead; nothing about removal.

The cutterhead does turn (clockwise) but as I turn it, you can definitely feel a rather strong pull to go back in its original stationary position.