ESP MusicCord

[willsellout]

Well if the guys product is selling like hotcakes there is absolutely no incentive to prove anything. Unless you want to get together a bunch of players, split the costs and run the test independently (which I think would be cool BTW)


Dan

 

[billfitzmaurice]

This is kind of what I was trying to say. My Ac cables are an unknown quantity in my setup. They look to be just cheap generic IECs. With the high current and voltage demands of my setup it just strikes me as a logical choke point. This is just a theory I have and I don't have the expertise to test the quality of my cables. It just looks as though my cables were chosen to be functional and keep down costs.

It's quite possible that the original power cables were a weak link and that the better cable made an improvement. But there's a finite limit to how much improvement a six-odd foot cable can make, and that occurs when the hundred odd-feet of wiring in the building, or the hundred-odd miles of wiring to the power station and everything in between, become the weak link. Taking everything on the street side of the service entrance out of the equation, that leaves you with the twelve or fourteen gauge Romex between the breaker box and the outlet as the weak link. Using anything that's technically 'better' than that Romex between the outlet and the amp cannot improve on the function of that Romex. So the upshot is, while replacing a cheapo 16 or 18 gauge power cable might have its benefits, anything more exotic than 12 gauge Romex, at most 50 cents a foot, and ten dollar hospital grade plugs isn't.

 

[Supertanker]

A good scientific blind test would include several "dimensions" in a matrix. A recorded signal must be used to eliminate player variation.

1. Several mass-produced "standard" cables for comparison. This eliminates the possibility of one junker skewing the test results.

2. Several randomly-selected premium cables, to verify that they're consistent.

3. Several electrical supplies, perhaps at different venues, to determine if outlet & supply influences affect any audible differences. (An undesirable variable: the acoustics of different venues, but there's no easy way to simulate a mix of electrical outlets and circuits in one venue.)

4. Several different amplifiers, to know if some exhibit more audible differences than others.

5. Several listeners, just to see whether it's only a golden-ear thing that can be heard.


If we presume three standard cables, three premium, three amps, three venues, then we run 3 * 3 * 3 * 3 or 27 tests. All listeners report their findings and we tally it all up.


Again, just science here. No ad-hominem attack on the OP at all.

I'm aware of all that, but that's not how we did it this past weekend.

There were at least 20 people involved in the un-scientific listening test and most heard a difference...

 

[willsellout]

I'm aware of all that, but that's not how we did it this past weekend.

There were at least 20 people involved in the un-scientific listening test and most heard a difference...

You put someone in a house and tell them its haunted and they will have experiences. Same thing here. Not saying that you or anyone else didn't hear it, but it doesn't prove anything.

 

[fdeck]

How about an unscientific psychology experiment:

One person sells identical cables for $4 and $40, and claims that they are identical.

Another person sells identical cables for $4 and $40, and makes no verifiable claims, but simply invites people to try for themselves.

Who makes more money?

 

[Supertanker]

You put someone in a house and tell them its haunted and they will have experiences. Same thing here. Not saying that you or anyone else didn't hear it, but it doesn't prove anything.

Not trying to prove anything.

I have nothing to prove.

Just sharing my experience from Saturday...

 

[SFjonstarr]

It's quite possible that the original power cables were a weak link and that the better cable made an improvement. But there's a finite limit to how much improvement a six-odd foot cable can make, and that occurs when the hundred odd-feet of wiring in the building, or the hundred-odd miles of wiring to the power station and everything in between, become the weak link. Taking everything on the street side of the service entrance out of the equation, that leaves you with the twelve or fourteen gauge Romex between the breaker box and the outlet as the weak link. Using anything that's technically 'better' than that Romex between the outlet and the amp cannot improve on the function of that Romex. So the upshot is, while replacing a cheapo 16 or 18 gauge power cable might have its benefits, anything more exotic than 12 gauge Romex, at most 50 cents a foot, and ten dollar hospital grade plugs isn't.

The college I go to for sound engeneering has special "clean" power coming out special outlets denoted with the green dots if I remember correctly. I don't understand exactly how it works but they worked it out with the power company and have some massive looking power filtration equipment. I can understand how the cables might not mean much at home or most places one would gig, but the power coming out of the wall isn't always the weak link. At least not everywhere I plan to use my bass rig/synth setup.

 

[willsellout]

Not trying to prove anything.

I have nothing to prove.

Just sharing my experience from Saturday...

I know you weren't but you offered up the fact that there were a bunch of people there that heard differences as if to substantiate your claim which was why I posted. The only way to put some meat behind the claim that a power cable makes a difference is to do it right.

 

[billfitzmaurice]

they worked it out with the power company and have some massive looking power filtration equipment..

Said equipment is most likely balanced transformers hooked to the 220 line that delivers 55-0-55 balanced AC, that being the only option that is truly superior to standard 110-0 voltage. It ain't cheap.

 

[bongomania]

How about an unscientific psychology experiment:
One person sells identical cables for $4 and $40, and claims that they are identical.
Another person sells identical cables for $4 and $40, and makes no verifiable claims, but simply invites people to try for themselves.
Who makes more money?

Exactly. A funny parallel is found in the animated movie "Kung Fu Panda". The noodle vendor has "regular recipe noodle soup" and "special recipe noodle soup", and the special recipe soup costs a little more, because it has a special secret ingredient. Later it's revealed that they're the same soup, and the secret ingredient is the word "special" and how it makes people believe the soup is special.

 

[Supertanker]

I know you weren't but you offered up the fact that there were a bunch of people there that heard differences as if to substantiate your claim which was why I posted. The only way to put some meat behind the claim that a power cable makes a difference is to do it right.

Nope. Not at all.

That's your spin on it.

Like I said I have nothing to prove.

I like the cable. I bought the cable.

It works for me, that's all that matters...

 

[willsellout]

No offense intended, thats just the way I took it. Glad you like it although I do have a question, you mention the 150 price and then the 50 dollar price. Did you get a deal on it?

 

[B-string]

How about an unscientific psychology experiment:

One person sells identical cables for $4 and $40, and claims that they are identical.

Another person sells identical cables for $4 and $40, and makes no verifiable claims, but simply invites people to try for themselves.

Who makes more money?

I have told the story before, but: I bought a 50" roll of 14awg "Monster Cable" speaker wire, super hi fi will make your boom box sound like a concert hall $120 retail, at a retailer my son worked at. Why you ask? With his discount it was less than $20 out the door. It has a nice feel to it but I would never pay anywhere close to the retail price.
Let the buyer beware?

 

[Supertanker]

you mention the 150 price and then the 50 dollar price. Did you get a deal on it?

Yea, the retail price is $150.

I made a side deal with someone else for $50...

 

[PluckyThump]

I think it's entirely possible that most amps come with a cheap 18-gauge power cord and replacing it with a 12-gauge cord could make a noticable difference, especially for high-power amps. That said, I'd bet this cable would do as well as the $150 ESP cable:

http://accessories.musiciansfriend....0-Ft-AC-Power-Supply-Cord-12-Gauge?sku=331005

It makes similar claims.

 

[greenboy]

I think it's entirely possible that most amps come with a cheap 18-gauge power cord and replacing it with a 12-gauge cord could make a noticable difference

Pretty much any amp I've bought that requires the current flow comes with a 16 or a 14 gauge lead. Don't know that too many single items can actually leverage 12 gauge though, that don't actually require alternative electrical service.

 

[wade_b]

If we as players believe in our gear, we are more likely to play without fear or restraint, right?

If there is a placebo effect happening with this cable, why deny the benefits?

"Patient heal thyself" and all that...

 

[greenboy]

If there is a placebo effect happening with this cable, why deny the benefits?

"Patient heal thyself" and all that...

Myself, I think that's making oneself sicker. A sick spoiled insecure society will eventually pay for its degeneration, if not immediately.

Woah, heavy thought. Better go pretend I never felt it.

 

[wade_b]

Myself, I think that's making oneself sicker. A sick spoiled insecure society will eventually pay for its degeneration, if not immediately.

That's a whole other discussion.

But consider: there are players that aren't in bands, don't know music theory or how to read, and quite frankly can't play well at all that will collect high end basses and gear, to the tune of thousands of dollars.

Yet when someone believes that 150 dollars has made an audible improvement in their tone, we seek scientific reasons to discredit that observation?

How many people really need 5 amps, 10 basses, and other piles of gear to get the job done?

 

[willsellout]

That's a whole other discussion.

But consider: there are players that aren't in bands, don't know music theory or how to read, and quite frankly can't play well at all that will collect high end basses and gear, to the tune of thousands of dollars.

Yet when someone believes that 150 dollars has made an audible improvement in their tone, we seek scientific reasons to discredit that observation?

How many people really need 5 amps, 10 basses, and other piles of gear to get the job done?

Well the difference between cords and amps, basses etc. is that there actually is an audible difference between some basses and amps and cabs. Take a J and P bass. No debating the differences there.



Dan