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Double Bass Evah Pirazzi strings megathread part II

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#361
DFW5String said:
Has anyone felt the Evah Weichs to be a bit "buzzy", at least for orchestra?
I just put the G on tonight to compare with my Belcanto and Permanent G.
Thus far the EW G is brighter than both, does not bow as well as either. It has stetched over 4 full steps tonight as it settles!
To me an oddly focused bright sound like the Corellis, but missing something in arco. Sounded hot in pizz tho. Not sure how to describe it!
Strangely, it has an irritating buzz to it from within the string when bowed on my instrument, especially at the left hand, though may be useful to hear yourself better???
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I never experienced or heard anything even approaching a "buzziness" and never heard anything from the Evahs that even remotely reminded me of Corellis, of all things. I keep pointing out that one can expect huge interactions among basses, strings, and players, so we can add your experience to the book.

David Kaczorowski said:
I've had them on for two and a half months and I think their range of possible timbres is limited compared to Olivs/Dux (which I've been using for quite some time.) That might be due in part to what sounds to me like a limited overtone series...
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That's a technical way of saying that they are not as "bright" as other strings which, for sure, they are not. I can certainly see how many would want a brighter, more "expressive" sound for arco (especially solo). For "old-school" pizz. sound (my preference), however, they sure are great and they bow quite easily.

YMMV
 
#362
drurb said:
That's a technical way of saying that they are not as "bright" as other strings which, for sure, they are not. I can certainly see how many would want a brighter, more "expressive" sound for arco (especially solo). For "old-school" pizz. sound (my preference), however, they sure are great and they bow quite easily.[/B]
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No, apparently you don't know what I'm saying, Doc. I'm not looking for something brighter. I've been using Olivs/Eudoxas for most of the past 10 years and that's what I'm comparing them to. Gut, dark sounding as it is, produces a complete overtone series. The difference is quite noticeable in the ponticello playing I do. Also, the EP aren't as responsive to changes in attack to produce different colors, ie. timbres.

The A does sound better than the D, btw.
 
#363
David Kaczorowski said:
No, apparently you don't know what I'm saying, Doc. I'm not looking for something brighter. I've been using Olivs/Eudoxas for most of the past 10 years and that's what I'm comparing them to. Gut, dark sounding as it is, produces a complete overtone series. The difference is quite noticeable in the ponticello playing I do. Also, the EP aren't as responsive to changes in attack to produce different colors, ie. timbres.

The A does sound better than the D, btw.
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Well, then, with all due respect, your use of the terms is not really correct. Please let me help. A "complete" overtone series results in a brighter sound because it includes many upper partials or harmonics. The EP weichs are a "darker" sounding string (less "bright") and that's consistent with less power in the upper harmonics. When you add those upper harmonics, you get a sound that is "brighter." That's a matter of physics and established human perception.

Actually, the concept of a "complete" overtone series is not helpful here. What characterizes these different strings is the profile and extent of that overtone series. So, to be more accurate, what you seem to prefer about gut strings and other strings is their overtone profile more than any greater extent or inclusion of much higher harmonics or overtones. Gut strings are "dark" because the upper harmonics are greatly reduced in amplitude (relative to other types of strings). If you examined the overtone series of gut vs., say Spirocres, you'd find that the upper partials (overtones) extend with substantial amplitude to higher frequencies for the Spiros. They sound brighter.
 
#364
Firstly, drub, my post was about EP regulars. It's in this forum becuase my initial post was a question about weichs. I'm not posting about them.

I understand your point about profile, but sound isn't nearly as simple as that. The overtones are in gut. Gut sounds dark because the overtones are not as apparent as in many metal strings (and they also produce, for lack of a better term, undertones.) However their presence contributes to the rich colorfullness of the sound. The harmonics of the olivs/eudoxas I've played for so long are also, no doubt, affected by the windings.

When writing about the completeness of sound I was thinking about the richness and colorfullness of each note. When white light is refracted, the three primary colors, red, yellow, and blue are easily visible. When studied closely and examined from different angles we can see shades of red and blue, and the oranges and greens can become visible too. Individual notes are the same way, except instead of colors there are overtones and undertones (below the fundamental). If the sound of one note in its totality is white light, certain strings refract the light differently than others and certain colors may be more easily pulled out and emphasized at any given time, or we can play with a more complete rainbow in each note.

The EP regulars are a good string, in some ways they're better then Olivs/Eudoxas. But they also have limitations that are becoming frustrating.

I hope this helps.:)
 
#365
David Kaczorowski said:
Firstly, drub, my post was about EP regulars. It's in this forum becuase my initial post was a question about weichs. I'm not posting about them.

I understand your point about profile, but sound isn't nearly as simple as that. The overtones are in gut. Gut sounds dark because the overtones are not as apparent as in many metal strings (and they also produce, for lack of a better term, undertones.) However their presence contributes to the rich colorfullness of the sound. The harmonics of the olivs/eudoxas I've played for so long are also, no doubt, affected by the windings.
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Sound is not simple, that's for sure. Given that my profession involves, to a great extent, the physics and mathematics of sound, its generation, its properties, and acoustics in general, I appreciate that more than most. :) The overtones are not "in gut" at all. The physical properties of gut strings, in fact any strings, are what determines the overtone series once they set into vibration by a forcing function (your finger or a bow). When you say that the higher overtones produced by gut strings are not as "apparent," you are correct and what you are referring to is the fact that the upper partials are reduced in amplitude-- just as I described in my previous post. The spectral profile of the overtone series is virtually everything in this case! It is what gives individual strings and, for that matter, individual instruments their unique character and timbre.

David Kaczorowski said:
When writing about the completeness of sound I was thinking about the richness and colorfullness of each note. When white light is refracted, the three primary colors, red, yellow, and blue are easily visible. When studied closely and examined from different angles we can see shades of red and blue, and the oranges and greens can become visible too. Individual notes are the same way, except instead of colors there are overtones and undertones (below the fundamental). If the sound of one note in its totality is white light, certain strings refract the light differently than others and certain colors may be more easily pulled out and emphasized at any given time, or we can play with a more complete rainbow in each note.
Click to expand...

What you are describing is spectral profile. By the way, undertones are a rare phenomenon that results from specific non-linearity. They don't play much of a role, if any, in these circumstances.
 
#366
drurb said:
What you are describing is spectral profile. By the way, undertones are a rare phenomenon that results from specific non-linearity. They don't play much of a role, if any, in these circumstances.
Click to expand...

What accounts for the deep presence heard in gut strings, for instance? They produce a sound that has depth, that might even be easier to feel than the hear; but you can hear it. Do you know what I mean? It's like there is something under the fundamental.
 
#367
David Kaczorowski said:
What accounts for the deep presence heard in gut strings, for instance? They produce a sound that has depth, that might even be easier to feel than the hear; but you can hear it. Do you know what I mean? It's like there is something under the fundamental.
Click to expand...

Yep, I know what you mean. To the best of my knowledge, that is the fundamental. The relative amount of power in the fundamental is relatively large for gut strings. When we usually hear a bass acoustically, the power in the fundamental is a good bit less than that in the first few harmonics. Look at page 217 of the book on this link. You'll see how the fundamental is typically relatively weak. The pitch of the note does not require much power (in fact, it requires no power) from the fundamental. This same phenomenon is why and how we hear the pitch of bass notes when listening to a crappy little radio. It is called the phenomenon of the missing fundamental. Just type "missing fundamental" into Google and you'll be deluged with explanations.

Back to the strings. When you adjust things so that you bring out the fundamental, it's a real ear-opener and a treat! That fundamental of the E, for example lies at approximately 41 Hz. That's a frequency you can really feel! With the Evahs on my bass, hitting the open E vibrates the floor and that "feeling" goes up through my body. That's the 41 Hz. It's great fun when you can get that going! :)
 
#371
Now that I have all four Evah Weichs on my Pollmann, I find the E and A extraordinary all right - a lovely sonorous complete sound with great fundamental with the harmonic trimmings in arco and ok in pizz.
The G and D however seem weaker and unbalanced to the others, and only the G still has that irritating buzzing sound at my left fingers when bowed.
An interesting thing was that my left fingers became slightly blackened after playing these for the first time as if there was some sort of oil on them from manufacture. Hoping that is not what it was as it would be on my bow hair too!
It will be interesting to see how these perform after they settle in, on my 8 category arco string test against the other major orchestra strings.
 
#373
I tried out a set of the EP Weichs recently on my Shen ply bass. I liked them well enough, but it was no "Holy Grail" experience. (I'm sure that these perform differently depending on the bass.)

The E string was kind of thuddy on my bass. The A was better, but I didn't love it either. Their arco sound and response was excellent, but for pizz, I've grown to really like Spiro Mittels for my E&A, and the EP Weichs seem sort of dead by comparison. The D&G from the EP Weichs were nice, a little thinner and brighter than the regular gauge, not so terribly different. Previously, I was using regular EPs for the D&G along with the Spiro Mittel E&A and I liked that combination well enough. So I sold the EP Weichs and got $100 back. Another $70 experiment :hmm:

After some comparison playing, listening, and recording my bass from the DI out of my amp, I have to admit that through the pickup and amp, which is what most of my work is, using a full Spiro set sounds best. The EPs start to get a little thuddy through the pickup, particularly the D. The tone of the Spiros gets darkened up by the Full Circle, and the end result is a sound that I like a lot. But I still have a little trouble hearing and feeling the Spiro G on gigs. Some notes seem to disappear more than others. I could live with it I suppose, but I'm going to experiment with some other steel Gs, or maybe just use the regular EP G.

And that's my story.
 
#374
I have had a set of the E.P weichs on my bass for a couple of months now.I have a Shen S80,I love my bass it is a good bass for the price.I love the sound of the Evahs,but they are to dark for my bass,I wanted to like these strings and I do but they sound muddy compared to my other strings,especially on the e string so I have decided to go back to my other strings.I will keep them as a back up sat,or trade them with someone who has something comparable to offer.They have been on my bass for less than three months.
 
#375
My EP Weichs are now really starting to settle in, played a jazz quartet gig Saturday night, wasn't too defined, and then played at a jazz jam Tuesday night, and the difference was night and day. Tuesday, my tone had much more definition, although that could have been attributed to the room.

Arco is great so far, unfortunately, the humidity has gotten out of control now, so the ol' Pops rosin has turned to glue. I just ordered some harder rosin, so hopefully that helps out. What kinds of rosin are you using with the EP Weichs?
 
#380
Swedish rosin is the stuff! :D I've used Nyman, Pops and Carlsson. Pops is good but it killed the bow-hair. I propably over-applied but you don't really have to worry about that with the non-synthetic rosin. I use Carlsson now and it worked great on reg. Evah's, Garbos and Guts.
 
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