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Double Bass Evah Pirazzi strings megathread part III

#4
I have the evah solos and the Innovation 140B solos both tuned to orchestral pitch. Personally, I find the 140Bs much darker than the evahs, and much lower tension, with less sustain. Both bow beautifully and I like both sets. I think if I was only playing jazz I would stick with the evahs, but for roots/americana, I prefer the 140Bs.
 
#5
I use the (regular) Innovation 140B (now the complete set, previously with Spiro Weich 4/4 A and E) and also checked an Evah Pirazzi Weich G.
The tension of the 140B is lower than the thension of the Evah Weich, but in my opinion the 140B is a bit brighter.

The E and A were rather stiff, so I replaced them by the Spiro Weich 4/4 (have 109 cm, but they also have less tension than the Spiro Weich 3/4). I liked that combination, just bowing was a bit different.
Then I thought (since most strings get more flexible after some use) I won't like to wait for the 140B A and E to open up, so I run the string over my thump bending it a bit. I did this for about 1 1/2 hours for each string to get an even flexibility over the whole length of the string. After that the surface got a bit sharp, so I used steel wool to remove the sharp edges.
After this treatment I really liked the lower strings too. The sustain was much larger, almost as large as the Spiros. So I decided to keep the whole set.
I know that my treatment is not recommended, but it shows, that the 140B could get much more sustain on the low end over time and use (or by "bad" treatment).

I had nothing to loose to treat the strings like I did, because I disliked the 140B A and E before and wouldn't use them the way they were.
Now I'm really happy with them. And I use them for (more modern) jazz mostly.

Since the Evahs stretch a lot when tuning up to pitch and the 140B do much less, I might be that there is more separating of winding (in a evenly distributed microscopic small way) in the Evahs than in the 140B. So the Evahs might get to the sustain much quicker than the 140B. That the 140B D and G don't have this behaviour might be a result of the smaller diameter.
That's how I explain this behavior from educated guessing.
 
#7
The Evah weichs are worth checking out. They have the ping. I've been using them for a couple of years, easier on the hands than the regulars. The solos tuned down are pretty nice too, except I had intonation problems with the G in thumb position. Harder to nail the pitch for some reason. Had a similar problem with spiro solos.
 
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#9
If you want the sustain of the Obligato with Evahs get the Evah Weich. The regular Evahs are more damped and have a bit less sustain than the Weich.
If the Obligatos are only a tad too bright for you you might want to try downtuned Obligato Solos or (orchestral) Innovation 140B. Both Evahs are a lot darker.
Maybe Innovation 140H would be an option too if you want to stay with a solid synthetic core (just a bit thinner than Obligato). Almost no highs but low to midrange and a lot of attack (oldschool sound). Also a bit darker than Obligatos.

But before you do this you might want to play the bass for some weeks with the Obligatos to hear if the brightness might calm down.
 
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#10
thanks for the help. I bought the bass used so its been played for a while. I want more bottom end so I don't think the Obligato solos would be the move. I think i may just roll the dice on some evah weichs. Would you say that they have a "bigger" sound than the obligatos? The oblis sound a little thin at times.
 
#11
Just thought I would weigh in some of my thoughts on the Evah Weich set.

I have been playing them for the last two years (buying a new set after about 16 months just to see if they had changed much. They didn't.) and they are a GREAT hybrid string but about a month back I got the string sweats and decided to go back and try spiro mittels again to see if my opinions changed about them. I had run Spiro mittels for about 3 years before switching to evahs.

My old complaints with the spiros were the usual "they are tricky to bow" and the tension of the spiro's was killing my left hand from time to time even though the right hand tension for pizz was pretty great from what I recall in those days. (Also... like many have said before, it's funny how different the same set of strings can feel on different instrument. My current bass, which is set up very well, makes all strings feel stiff.)

So the Evahs went on and I remember having that feeling like I had just looked at God and he was looking back at me giving my a wink and a thumbs up. And away I went on my merry way to shed.

Over the last two years I have really moved into a faster way of playing and this is where the limitations, to me and my technique, of the softer more rubbery feel of Evahs began to appear. I felt like the string cannot keep up with my right hand on quicker passages (pizz) and I was starting to yearn for a more Drew Gress like growly sound. More so that the Evahs anyways. Off go the Evahs.

On go the spiros. First thing I noticed was that this time around they were much easier to bow. Way easier than I remember. I credit a good part of this to really schooling my bow technique for the last 3 years and to the forgiving nature of the Evahs. They also have a very large envelope of dynamic that can be bowed out of the string. You get back what you put in. This time around they also had a very nice singing tone in thumb pos. As far as pizz, the right hand tension is pretty awesome. It's almost like playing a slab. Very articulate 2 finger technique. But, the left hand was aching again. It only took them about 2 weeks to lose the zing and then it became "what do I love/not love about these and what do/don't I miss about the Evahs?

What I love about spiros: Balls, dynamics, harmonic content, right hand feel (the snap back of the string after it has been plucked)
What I don't love about spiros: Sometimes it's just too much growl (not good for all situations), I cannot get the left and right hand to sync up in pizz (never could with spiro's... hard to explain), left hand tension is just a bit too much for me, the damn D string.

What I love about Evahs: The bounce, the predictability, the warm awesome arco, the big and warm pizz tone with a nice amount of growl, the supportive nature of the tone to the rest of the instruments it is mixed with when playing arco or pizz.
What I don't love about Evahs: The predictability (haha), the sluggishness of the right hand during fast 2 finger pizz (trying to adjust my touch), spicatto and other off the string arco is trickier (Still working on it), they bottom out quicker that spiros when played very aggressively.

So in conclusion... Evahs went back on this weekend. Lot's of gigs coming up with equal pizz and arco duty. And it's good to be home. But we'll see for how long!

p.s. I know that a month isn't a very long trial with a new set of Spiro's but my two biggest concerns was the health of the left hand and the crappy arco tone of the D string thru my amp. (D string sounds like it's from a completely different set of strings.) I have a bass at my shop with 20 year old spiro's on it and they sound and feel awesome. Can anybody comment on if Spiro mittels over time gain a softer, bouncier feel? Send me a PM if you don't want to derail the Evah discussion. Thanks!
 
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#12
I put EP Weichs on my bass in June 2009 and they still sounded and felt great three years later!

By way of background, I’ve had a love affair with Evahs since I first discovered them in September 2007, and posted an enthusiastic review of EP regulars in the “Evah Pirazzi Strings Megathread Part 1,” Post # 355, page 18, at this link: http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f17/evah-pirazzi-strings-megathread-part-i-325116/index18.html

The only reason I took the regulars off after16 months, in April of 2009, was to try the EP Weichs. Once again, I was dazzled by how great these EPs sounded and felt (big fundamental, evenness across the strings, woody, organic, stiff yet supple under the right hand). I posted another enthusiastic review of the Weichs in the “Evah Pirazzi Strings Megathread Part II,” Post # 291, page 15, at this link: http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f17/evah-pirazzi-strings-megathread-part-ii-543119/index15.html

In mid-April of this year, after three years, the EP Weich magic still seemed to be working. The strings had acquired a burnished tone quality, and still sounded warm and compact. The growl was still there on the E, as was the click in front of the notes. The string set was still balanced, and played evenly across. The only difference I noted was that the overtones around the fundamental seemed to have diminished. As a result the notes sound somewhat flatter (in dimension, not pitch), as if something in the strings had stretched over the three years and reduced their range of oscillation. Because this effect appeared in all the strings to the same degree, it wasn’t objectionable except in notes in the thumb position on the G string, where the string seemed unable to resonate, unable to produce a clear note.

It was this last change that led me to want to try a new set of EP Weichs. Adrian Mueller at Pirastro, who had been kind enough to let me try out both gauges of EPs, graciously sent a new set of Weichs. They went on in mid-April and have now had a chance to settle in for eight weeks. And wow! If three-year old EP Weichs were still wonderful, new ones are out-of-the-park georgeous. Big, fat, blossoming notes, with lots of “head room,” a term usually applied to amplification but one that seems awfully appropriate here. The overtones surrounding the strong and distinct fundamental in the new strings may be responsible for this quality, but whatever its source the strings feel alive and ebullient, warm, organic and woody.

I’ve said it before and I’m happy to say it again: Pirastro has created something wonderful in these strings. When I play them I’m happy and don’t want to stop, like the slogan says. Congratulations, Pirastro!
 
#13
Thanks to Adrian Mueller at Pirastro, I don't have to wonder how much tension these great strings have. It seems they really do have a bit higher tension than other brands.

Orchestral set:
B/C - 72.6 lbs
Ext E - 70.4
E - 68.6
A - 71.3
D - 65.3
G - 62.7

Solo set:
Fs - 68.6
B - 72.6
E - 66.0
A - 70.0
 
#15
martinc said:
bassmith wrote:

"stiff yet supple".

Huh?

Innovation Honeys are stiff and so are Dominants. But supple too? No sir. How can EP's be stiff AND supple?
Click to expand...

The same way that a pie crust can be "tender" and "flaky" I guess.

Having played Evahs and Dominants I can definitely say that dominants have a stiffer quality, while evahs have more "spring"(?) I guess. they still have a stiffness from the synthetic material, but not a sponginess like Obligatos do.

eerbrev
 
#17
I have a two year old set of Evah weichs on my Epiphone and they're starting to sound kind of dead for pizz playing. Is this a common lifespan for pizz use? Some posts here said they were still using a set after three years.
 
#20
I have played through two sets of Evah Regulars (about three years for me), mostly arco orchestral music, but also some jazz. I just put on a set of Belcantos, and though recently my work has been cutting into my practice time, here are my early impressions:

The Evahs are thicker, have a more complex in sound, are louder on my bass, have a nice pizz attack, and have a slightly coarser bowed sound.

The Belcantos are thinner, less complex and not quite so loud - but they have a smoother sound, with a more ringing (singing) tone, especially in the upper registers (above the D on the G string). Also the Belcanto lower strings seem a bit easier to get started. I found that passages where I had to cross over from the G or D strings to catch a single quick note on the E string were easier on the Belcantos.

If I were playing mostly jazz, big band or latin, I would prefer the Evahs to the Belcantos. As it stands the jury is still out on the Belcantos for orchestra. I'll keep them on, but I am not sure that I'll buy another set.

Overall I found both sets of strings easy to bow, but after three years or more bowing the Evahs, my technique was honed to the needs of those strings, so when I started on the Belcantos, I needed to adjust my technique to get the same, consistently reliable tone and attack. I am still in that process.

As much as I love the Evahs and am liking the Belcantos, I still wonder if the stiffer orchestral strings like the Flexicores, might be a bit easier for really fast articulation on the lower strings, and for off the string work. I used to bow Flexicores years ago, but that was so long ago that I don't really remember - plus my technique at that time was not well developed.
 
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