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Ever hate a song so much you'd risk being fired?

#301
Brad Johnson said:
Understood.

Even before I gigged, I never had a don't play list. I was the guy who said "Cool, let's give it a shot... what's the worst that could happen?".

In your case, the worst might be that you find out you actual liked it.

jk
;)
:hiding:
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Can't say that I've ever walked into a situation with a "don't play" list. I have, however, been in a number of situations where material has been brought forward and rejected. I've experienced this as band member and as band leader.

Sometimes things are rejected because they just don't fit. We recently rejected LMFAO's "Dynamite" because we just don't have the right pieces to do it right. The fact that I don't like the song never came into play and I would've played it. It's just heavily synth driven and we don't have a keyboard player.

Other songs we've rejected because we simply can't get them right. And some we've rejected because one or more band members just doesn't wanna do them. CMM was supposed to be one of those. Three of the four of us said "plfffffffbbt" when it first came up. Then when we were reminded that it was a specific request for a private function, we agreed we'd do it for that function. I don't know where it goes from here. I'd rather not do it, but if we wind up keeping it, I'm happy with what I worked up for it.
 
#302
Brad Johnson said:
............

I'm not playing for me. To me it really is that simple. I don't think alot of people truly get that. If I were I'd include lots of "head-scratching" music and I know I wouldn't get paid anywhere near what I get paid if I got paid at all. I have no doubt that I could make it fun for the crowd but familiarity with a song can make things alot easier.

I actually like manipulating the crowd. I know of lots of bands that do music similar to what some of my better paying gigs do, the difference is in bringing a genuine groove to just about anything vs. the usual plastic stick up the orifice of your choice renderings. I could easily do that with CMM, it's basically just a hook musically. A driving hook. I don't mind playing simple, driving basslines in service of a groove.

.......
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I understand your perspective, but I add an additional angle to it. That angle is, "there are roughly 2.87 million songs (give or take a few) that we could choose from. Is not doing THIS ONE gonna cost us a gig?". Thankfully, my band mates feel sorta the same way. There are a lot of songs in our sets that if it were only left up to me and my personal tastes, we wouldn't do. Same goes for each of my bandmates. So we don't feel bad if we chose for whatever reason NOT to do this week's #1. But those decisions are usually made well ahead of time. When we agree to do a song, no matter which of us doesn't like it, we jam it like we love it.
 
#303
Brad Johnson said:
Again, I've played the Chicken Dance and damn near LMFAO at the crowd's attempts at doing the actual dance. It was requested, we played it. Those gigs pay a minimum of $300. Bring it on.

I don't care for Gaga's or Perry's works from a personal listening POV but for live entertainment it's so easy to get a crowd going with that stuff it's not even funny. And with a male vocalist? Even better IMO. The unexpected.
:cool:

I'll be doing some of both of their songs this weekend on my beach gig. Pay: $500. Maybe I have more motivation than most not to care one way or another. I've played worse for less.
:D

I do fusion or Jazz gigs for the "artist" side of me but I can bring that mindset to just about any gig I do. The best paying gigs for me aren't the artist ones and often they're not the most fun either. Just saying. It can be what you make it.

What exactly is it that people genuinely hate about particular songs. The music? The lyrics? The artist? The people who like it? The way it makes your butt look too big? What is it?

Again, I'm genuinely curious.
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I think for me it's two things: 1) I don't need to make money off playing so it allows me to be a little more selective about what I play, and 2) If all I cared about was pleasing the masses with what they wanted to hear, I'd be a DJ.

I think my problem is I just am not cut out to be a cover band guy. I've tried a few times, and the most fun I had was playing in a Queensryche tribute which was playing songs I loved and influenced me as a young player. More power to the folks who will play whatever, wherever for the bucks, but that just doesn't sit well with me. I get weird when I waste any of my musical time and energy on playing what I feel is **** music.

As far as what I hate about particular songs, it's usually how trite or insipid they are like the song that inspired OP to post. There are still some good pop songs coming out that I can appreciate, but it's harder and harder to find them.
 
#304
Brad Johnson said:
Coltrane played covers. Think about it.
;)


:D
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Way to use extreme examples for effect Brad.:D

Good point though , if a popular song is as popular as "call me,maybe" cleverly disguising it and surprising the listener
could get a very positive response.

Giving it the Coltrane treatment might be too disguised,
but laugh ? I'd be laughing too hard to be able to play.
 
#306
fraublugher said:
You found the solution right there, and it works for you and
the masses of Queensryche fans in your area.
Win-win.
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Yeah, I wouldn't call it masses LOL. Probably the best show we did was 100 people, and the average was more like 50-60. But they were devoted and into every song, and I would have played it for free so it worked. Personnel changes are really the only reason I stopped doing that one.
 
#307
my own personal rule is, I will play anything that we can sound okay doing, but I will not necessarily sing anything. We were playing at some older folks' party and weezer's hashpipe (one of the dozen or so songs I sing in the band) was coming up on the set list. I gauged the crowd and quietly told the guys "I'm not singing Hashpipe tonight." They said, oh c'mon, it's fine, and I said :scowl:
If they'd insisted on it, yes I would have walked. I'm not coming to somebody's suburban party and singing about gay prostitutes and drug use for the whole neighborhood to hear.
We play a handful of hair band 80's rock which I really despise but I'll play with a smile. Our main singer can sing stuff he hates and put on a show of how much he's into it, which I just can't do.
 
#308
Brad Johnson said:
We all have our comfort level. I'm the complete opposite... I work with people who for the most part take it upon themselves to be prepared so no rehearsals necessary and any arrangement changes can be discussed and done.

.......
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Probably not as opposite as you may think. My "2-rehearsal rule" is specific to new material, particularly if someone in the group has never heard it before. Given the makeup of our group, there is almost always someone (usually me) who has NEVER heard that song before. Unless it's Motown or '70s / 80s funk that I bring in. Then it's our 20-something singer who has never heard it. Once we've got it under our collective wings (usually 2-rehearsals) and we're clear on who's doing what when, game on.

We've got a bunch of songs that we NEVER rehearse anymore. No need. With 90-some songs in our repertoire and 45-song gigs, there's no way we can rehearse everything twice before a gig.

Seeing as how we've both played in black churches, you know I understand the concept of "pick it up on the fly".
 
#309
Why not play a song that is going to get the entire crowd excited. For me, so much of what I enjoy doing is pleasing the crowd. I love listening to bands like the ohio players and sly and the family stone and all those guys but realistically, most people don't. That is why there is nothing like that on the charts while Call me Maybe is a number 1. I don't like that Call Me Maybe went number 1, but I am jealous that some of you guys get to play that song and (if you pull it off) get the crown pumped. My band plays a ton of songs that I hate, but I still enjoy playing them 230 nights out of the year. If you truly do not care about how far music can take you and you are playing a free gig, then by all means play whatever you want. But, if you are being paid by a venue, you are there to cater to what they and their crowd wants. If you just can't pull it off well, don't do it. The people will hate it and your band will look bad.
 
#310
malthumb said:
I understand your perspective, but I add an additional angle to it. That angle is, "there are roughly 2.87 million songs (give or take a few) that we could choose from. Is not doing THIS ONE gonna cost us a gig?". Thankfully, my band mates feel sorta the same way. There are a lot of songs in our sets that if it were only left up to me and my personal tastes, we wouldn't do. Same goes for each of my bandmates. So we don't feel bad if we chose for whatever reason NOT to do this week's #1. But those decisions are usually made well ahead of time. When we agree to do a song, no matter which of us doesn't like it, we jam it like we love it.
Click to expand...

The obvious other side of that angle is "... is it going to kill you to do it?".
:D

My guess is the answer is "no". Particularly if it's a simple request like this. The only person who'd have to spend any time learning it should be the vocalist. The rest is extremely easy.
 
#311
malthumb said:
Probably not as opposite as you may think. My "2-rehearsal rule" is specific to new material, particularly if someone in the group has never heard it before. Given the makeup of our group, there is almost always someone (usually me) who has NEVER heard that song before. Unless it's Motown or '70s / 80s funk that I bring in. Then it's our 20-something singer who has never heard it. Once we've got it under our collective wings (usually 2-rehearsals) and we're clear on who's doing what when, game on.

We've got a bunch of songs that we NEVER rehearse anymore. No need. With 90-some songs in our repertoire and 45-song gigs, there's no way we can rehearse everything twice before a gig.

Seeing as how we've both played in black churches, you know I understand the concept of "pick it up on the fly".
Click to expand...

So why the need for two rehearsals on what are likely simpler tunes? Just a comfort level thing with each other or are people actually having difficulty doing it?

Actually it does appear to be as opposite as I think:). A two rehearsal rule for any song is the opposite of what I'm talking about. Doesn't make a difference if nobody's heard the song. If you're dealing with even average musicians who are trying, you should be able to:

1. email a link or the specific song to everyone... obviously they'd need email for that and something they can listen on. Now the only excuse for not hearing the song is not listening.

2. Decide what key you'll do it in. Another confusion killer.

3. Decide whether or not you want to change the arrangement. Something that should easily be discussable in writing. Like "We'll do the first and second verse, skip the bridge, guitar solo then jam on the hook".

For the folks who CRS, keep readily available notes. Come showtime, when you do that song, you should do the first and second verse, skip the bridge, guitar solo then jam on the hook.

Most of this stuff we're talking about is not transcribing Giant Steps. It's simple. If each individual can play or sing along with the recording, they should be able to play or sing along with each other at the gig. If they can't, they have some things they likely need to work on individually. I genuinely hate being at rehearsals where I have to keep playing a song because someone else couldn't put in the effort to hold up their end. Unless they're having genuinely difficulty figuring it out... which still could be talked through outside of a rehearsal.

That's just me and the folks I deal with. It's probably why I like dealing with them. A bonus is that not playing a song over and over at a rehearsal can keep it fresh for a gig. OTOH if you have people you don't trust to do that I can understand the need.
 
#312
malthumb said:
Can't say that I've ever walked into a situation with a "don't play" list. I have, however, been in a number of situations where material has been brought forward and rejected. I've experienced this as band member and as band leader.

Sometimes things are rejected because they just don't fit. We recently rejected LMFAO's "Dynamite" because we just don't have the right pieces to do it right. The fact that I don't like the song never came into play and I would've played it. It's just heavily synth driven and we don't have a keyboard player.

Other songs we've rejected because we simply can't get them right. And some we've rejected because one or more band members just doesn't wanna do them. CMM was supposed to be one of those. Three of the four of us said "plfffffffbbt" when it first came up. Then when we were reminded that it was a specific request for a private function, we agreed we'd do it for that function. I don't know where it goes from here. I'd rather not do it, but if we wind up keeping it, I'm happy with what I worked up for it.
Click to expand...

You can have a list with only one song on it. CMM was on yours.
;)
 
#313
fraublugher said:
Way to use extreme examples for effect Brad.:D

Good point though , if a popular song is as popular as "call me,maybe" cleverly disguising it and surprising the listener
could get a very positive response.

Giving it the Coltrane treatment might be too disguised,
but laugh ? I'd be laughing too hard to be able to play.
Click to expand...

My point with Coltrane was that even a Jazz monster like Coltrane didn't take it as beneath him to tackle a cover tune.

I remember coming up as a young musician and having someone tell me they only played original music and wouldn't play covers. Their example of bands that did the same?

The Beatles and the Stones. Some folks are genuinely dimwitted.
:D
 
#316
Brad Johnson said:
As usual some folks really don't seem to get what doing covers entails. It does not require that you do a carbon copy rendition of the original. That's the box unimaginative musicians are stuck in.
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Hmm, I take a little umbrage to that statement. I get what doing covers entails... to do them my way... which happens to be "carbon copy." I also get what doing them your way entails, "making it your own." (Hard to do well, but if you can and want to, go for it.)

Some of us are "unimaginative musicians" by choice, and I am not "stuck in a box." My day jobs have always been in creative fields and my imagination is running full speed all the time. And if I preferred to engage it for the purpose of creating original music, I would. But it's nice to do something creative without having to put a lot of thought into it, especially when your imagination is kinda tapped out for the week.

There's nothing wrong with making covers sound like the record if that's what you're into.

:spit: /rant
 
#317
Brad Johnson said:
So why the need for two rehearsals on what are likely simpler tunes? ......
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For me there are a couple reasons....one is that most of my own BL experience comes from Praise Teams and Contemporary Gospel choirs. Even though I don't do vocal arrangements, I've always found that people don't generally "get it" until they are able to go away, soak on it, then come back and repeat what they've learned. Now, often with Praise Teams and gospel choirs, you're dealing with non-musicians.

In those situations, 2-rehearsal schemes work. If it works, continue to use it.

This is another reason.....

Brad Johnson said:
.....

2. Decide what key you'll do it in. Another confusion killer.
Click to expand...
Key changes are indeed a point of confusion. More than once we've learned the song in one key, only to find that our singer sounds better in another key. Unfortunately, we typically need to all be together to determine that.

Brad Johnson said:
3. Decide whether or not you want to change the arrangement. Something that should easily be discussable in writing. Like "We'll do the first and second verse, skip the bridge, guitar solo then jam on the hook".
Click to expand...

We could (should) be a lot more efficient here. With this particular group I've quit trying to push that rock up the hill. It's much easier to say "2-rehearsals.....we'll work out the changes / verse - chorus issues in the 1st rehearsal....show that we have absorbed it in the 2nd.". That approach works in my bar band AND my Praise Team.

All the rest of what you say (I've clipped) is stuff I would like to believe. History has borne out that it is usually not the case.

......
 
#318
Brad Johnson said:
You can have a list with only one song on it. CMM was on yours.
;)
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Yeah, but I didn't come in with that position. The song was suggested, I listened to it and thought "Oh, God, no". That's not the only song that this has happened with. My band mates often bring up songs I've never heard. I listen to them and then give my opinion. Some i like, some i don't Sometimes we do them, sometimes we don't. Same with songs I bring in. It's a contact sport (not really.....I just like saying that)
 

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