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Everyone read this post . Looking for forum wide feedback.
- Thread starter Drop1
- Start date
Being that the worst way to listen to bass is on small speakers( iPhones,iPads,computers etc) the only way this could even be tried would be aux in on a bass amp. There are so many variations,amp,room,etc sound in my opinion would still not be true. So no for me.
I remember the old activebass.com had a similar thing back in the early 2000s before some of you were born.
It was useful though, I’d contribute again.
It was useful though, I’d contribute again.
For me personally, the way the instrument feels is just as important as any other factor. I've also played instruments that are the exact same model and build, but sound quite different. So the idea of sound clips has never worked for me in instrument searching. It's been great for effects and related tools, though.
How about a talkbass community supported rental program, where if you're interested in a pedal/etc you can pay shipping and rent it for a period of time. Standard rental practicies (deposits, etc) would apply.
Of course you could say the big box music stores, with their very liberal return policies, already ARE this thing.
Of course you could say the big box music stores, with their very liberal return policies, already ARE this thing.
get TI jazz flats, the most highly lauded string out there. Such a great string that you may find a better one for you, but not for Jazz Flats lovers, definitely for feel, but also for tone. IMO their mid heavy sound is perfect for hollowbodies. tone quality is subjective, and I am not one to blindly follow the masses, but I made the choice and have no more niggling thoughts about finding something better. I have gotten so used to the feel of them, that there is no way anything else could be better at this point.
They take longer to break in than probably most keep roundwounds, so they would and have given false negatives. That's another variable that would make such a thing as a soundpure "clipilator" ,( which has a normalled signal path for the most part, and is still a pretty useless tool other than getting rough ideas of what entire categories of gear sound like) for bass a non starter. i have been an engineer for a decade, and can't hear anything of value in those clips. you just have an endless amount of variables that can't be accounted for, not to mention all of the inherent biases of non blind and even blind tests. Not the least of which are result bias (when you look for a difference, you will most likely find one, real or not) and "relative bias" which is what i call the often useless result when comparing signals rather than listening to each in the absolute (see "Pepsi Challenge").
Yes, this negates A/B testing which is a huge tool for basically everyone including myself, as i am subject to many biases of which i am aware, that's just the nature of life, nobody got time for scientifically testing every choice we make. Just make the damn choice and live with it.
IMO strings for the most part are strings. Some may report differences they hear on their particular signal path but they are fairly arbitrary and as said before, the fingers are where the real meat of variance and the key to getting the sound somewhere near where you want. Then again, nobody really knows what they want, without knowing all the options, so something like this may be , like the clipilator, a great placebo for making arbitrary choices. And this is actually important, and "choice supportive bias" will alleviate the pain of not ever really knowing
They take longer to break in than probably most keep roundwounds, so they would and have given false negatives. That's another variable that would make such a thing as a soundpure "clipilator" ,( which has a normalled signal path for the most part, and is still a pretty useless tool other than getting rough ideas of what entire categories of gear sound like) for bass a non starter. i have been an engineer for a decade, and can't hear anything of value in those clips. you just have an endless amount of variables that can't be accounted for, not to mention all of the inherent biases of non blind and even blind tests. Not the least of which are result bias (when you look for a difference, you will most likely find one, real or not) and "relative bias" which is what i call the often useless result when comparing signals rather than listening to each in the absolute (see "Pepsi Challenge").
Yes, this negates A/B testing which is a huge tool for basically everyone including myself, as i am subject to many biases of which i am aware, that's just the nature of life, nobody got time for scientifically testing every choice we make. Just make the damn choice and live with it.
IMO strings for the most part are strings. Some may report differences they hear on their particular signal path but they are fairly arbitrary and as said before, the fingers are where the real meat of variance and the key to getting the sound somewhere near where you want. Then again, nobody really knows what they want, without knowing all the options, so something like this may be , like the clipilator, a great placebo for making arbitrary choices. And this is actually important, and "choice supportive bias" will alleviate the pain of not ever really knowing
You can listen to a youtube video on how a certain bass or amp or pedal or string sounds - but that will only give you an idea of how it could sound. Really, the only way of knowing how a piece of gear (or set of strings) sounds in your hands is to play it yourself.
Most string manufacturers have descriptions of how their string sounds - of course one brand’s “bright and clear” tone might sound different from another.
Really the best way to gather the most information without buying everything youself, is to read these forums and see what people say about them.
Most string manufacturers have descriptions of how their string sounds - of course one brand’s “bright and clear” tone might sound different from another.
Really the best way to gather the most information without buying everything youself, is to read these forums and see what people say about them.
I think it’s a good idea as long as it doesn’t sound like a Guitar Center on a Saturday afternoon...
bongomania
Commercial User
IMO/IME the things one hears on Youtube are not even remotely on the same planet as "accurate" to what we'll hear in person. Tuning, mic placement, room shape, player technique, SO many things factor in to the sound. What we hear is an amalgam of what we EXPECTED to hear (consciously or subconsciously) and the actual sound from the recording; and the "actual sound" contains shaping that we can't always factor in because we don't know it's there.
It's like one day you see a bowl of fruit, and then some years later you see an impressionist painting of a bowl of fruit. You recognize it as a bowl of fruit, because you saw something like it. You can compare it to other paintings of fruit. Look at enough of them and maybe you become an expert in fruit still-lifes. But we still don't know how those grapes actually tasted. We think we do, because we've eaten plenty of grapes before, but we've just programmed our brains to "know" something based on assumptions.
bongomania
Commercial User
Where it can work is, again, where we strip away as many variables as possible. Same player, same room, same everything except for the object under test. That's part of why my review site worked--it didn't matter that nobody else had my same bass, strings, ears, fingers, etc. because I never changed any of those things, so the frame of reference was narrowed to a more useful comparator. And even that, to me, was barely adequate.
I can make the same bass, strings, pickups and controls sound any number of different ways depending on where and how i play. Take a cue from golf club designers and build a machine where the only variable is the club so results are only influenced by that single thing. Build a machine you can load a bass into and it will be played exactly the same as any other bass loaded into the machine. The human element must be removed to produce samples useful for comparison purposes. Anything else is wasted time unless you just want to fill up a bunch of storage with totally random sound files.
At least to your goal of how strings compare in sound, the only way this would be useful would be recordings where the the same bass and amp (and eq) are used. I could make an argument for the same player as well but I suspect that you’d be able to get some character with the other variables static.
As to how basses sound, I can get this on YouTube today.
As to how basses sound, I can get this on YouTube today.
In the realm of art, there really is no difference between knowing and being programmed to know. You can say the exact same thing about western music theory. Which, like any religion or philosophy, is mostly arbitrary techniques from historical sources sprinkled with a little bit of science such as the overtone series.
But there is a scarce amount of music theory that has been proven beyond by assumptions to sound good. I stick to those things, like pitch, interval, pulse, and accent that are universal to all forms of music, and just use my ears and creativity and inspiration, because the latter two is basically what all forms of art boil down to, and what all good pieces of art are made of, with the technical stuff being no more than a means to an end.
But the "assumptions" are great ways for us to make arbitrary choices. We need our biases, assumptions, misgivings, and even ignorance as all great artists have. All of our favorite artists own, live by, subscribe to, or otherwise indulge in nonsense, and if they didn't, perhaps they'd be scientists rather than artists. Moral of the story: just pick something already.
OP, I think it's a great idea. I just feel like the work and necessary parameters to make it work are mind numbing. If one person forgets to turn off their compressor while downloading their sample it spoils the whole comparison. As Bongo stated you would have to remove as many contributing factors as possible. If someone were able to do ALL of the examples in their own environment then it would be more accurate. However this leads to whether or not it's worth the time and money to carry out such a vast endeavor.
I was about to reply to this last night but I couldn’t remember who had done that. Thanks @burgerdj
Though not a bad idea there would be many factors that would influence the results, recording devices, levels, eq settings and imo,
99% of the tone comes from you hands. So though you can get a general idea of what a instrument will sounds like, the disclaimer ( your results may vary) will need to be on there for sure, because even the play-ability feel in my hands could be vastly different in some other players hands.
99% of the tone comes from you hands. So though you can get a general idea of what a instrument will sounds like, the disclaimer ( your results may vary) will need to be on there for sure, because even the play-ability feel in my hands could be vastly different in some other players hands.
