Evidence Audio Cables

[jacove]

I haven't heard any monster cables....but I heard that they should be pretty equal to planet waves...don't know if this is true.

 

[Marcus Willett]

I'm only going to respond to that last bit about measurement, because there can be no "winners" in a thread like this.

We can all be winners. I like the Evidence and you don't. There ya go; we are both winners.

With that, I'm done with this thread.

Probably a good idea, since if you haven't tried the Evidence for yourself then you quite literally don't know what you're talking about; you're assuming. I have tried it so I do know what I'm talking about. There's no offense in there, it's just the fact of the matter.

 

[Marcus Willett]

how do Monster Bass cables compare?

To your standard cable? Slightly better; probably not worth the extra expense unless you're REALLY picky. Not quite as "robust" as the Evidence.

I will say this about the Evidence: It made a bigger difference with my single coil Jazz than with my soapbar Jazz. In the case of the soapbars, it was a slight improvement, but not really that noticeable. In the case of the single coils, it beefed up the sound noticeably.

Of course I'm probably just imagining it...that's it...silly me, I keep forgetting that I'm not really hearing what I think I'm hearing.

 

[jacove]

Thanks for your input, Marcus...I agree that the cables somehow can beef up a single coil bass, it did with my Jazz with fralins....the sound just got more strong and full....I have also noticed, if I dare say , that the response seems faster and overall more dynamic...

 

[fretlessrock]

while trying to stay out of the pissing match I will throw a few opinions out there:

Better materials and construction techniques definitely do matter. You can start with a junker cable at one end and a Zaolla or the like on the other. One is using the absolutely cheapest materials because there has to be profit margin all the way up to that big pile held up by a mic stand at the local geetar barn. The other uses the best materials that the manufactuere can find, assembled in the best way possible, and then the margin is built in. The difference is real, but the value is totally subjective.

The things to avoid are paying a lot for junk, paying a lot for a difference that you will never hear, and going cheap on a critical component.

On a passive bass the cable plays a pretty huge part in the signal chain. Delivering that meager output signal from the pickups and tone stack to the next step in the chain without degrading it demands low loss at high-Z, and low loss aint cheep.

FWIW, I've taken a common, bargain cable that a bandmate was using and rebuilt it, not changing any parts but just redressing the cable and resoldering. Just that effort made a big difference.

The comparison of the cable debate to religion is kinda apt, but in this case we can actually use objective tools like spectrum analyzers to tell us something useful. And there is no hell, there is only France.

P

 

[Lyle Caldwell]

Probably a good idea, since if you haven't tried the Evidence for yourself then you quite literally don't know what you're talking about; you're assuming. I have tried it so I do know what I'm talking about. There's no offense in there, it's just the fact of the matter.

OK, I do have to hop back in just for a moment.

While we're on the subject of you knowing what you're talking about, go back and read my responses. You'll note that I quite clearly wrote that I did audition an Evidence cable. Many readers might have picked that up the first time, but feel free to read as many times as necessary.

 

[Lyle Caldwell]

Tell you what - someone send me an Evidence cable (I'll send it back after the test) and I'll record the same part through the Evidence, through a George L, and through a Mogami/Neutrik cable, all of the same length. I'll then post the recordings here without labelling them. Everyone can hear and judge for themselves.

I promise not to EQ or in any way alter the recordings to try and skew things "my way".

The test would be a passive Jazz Bass with Sadowsky humcancelling pickups through the cable into a Bass PODxt Pro set as a flat DI, and then recorded into Nuendo using the USB out of the POD. So the only cable used would be just the one. No level changing, no normalization, nada. What you hear is what came out of the bass.

A warning: a year or so ago I did a "snare mic comparison" for a drumming group. People consistently heard differences between two playbacks of the exact same recording. Amazing how different an SM57 sounds from an SM57. Same file, two different filenames. At first, people were evenly divided about which sounded better, but as more people read the opinions in the group, the majority decided that the second version of the file sounded "fatter."

 

[jacove]

Smash, why should I get a science proof when what I hear is good enough...I really don't care for science proof when it comes to subjective taste...Regarding the blind test, that was done with my buddy and longtime friend...I have never said anything about magic cables or making these the holy grail of tone...I've only said that they have improved my tone noticeable, so therefore I would like to pass it on the others...I truly respect what you guys hear, you should do the same IMHO....

 

[Marcus Willett]

Since your hearing seems to defy all recorded science/testing on the subject, why not get some proper a/b/x testing proof done in a lab, publish the results, then make some money off it? I'll bet a lot of experts would pay good money to be able to test your hearing and replicate your results under proper conditions.

I remember having an argument with a physics professor who was telling me that it was impossible that body material could make any difference in a bass' tone. "You're just creating an electrical current by moving a ferrous material through a magnetic field. What kind of body material you have can't affect that. It could be made of concrete; it wouldn't matter."

I see. Well, I guess we're all winners then. I have a cable I like and others are perfectly content with whatever cable they get.

Having said that, I have yet to see anyone offer a plausible explanation for what happened to me (guitar player noticing "something" different without any prompting). It's amazing what people (not necessarily you) will come up with to explain it. All kinds of non-verbal cues and whatnot; stuff I must have been doing even though I didn't realize it. ANYTHING except that maybe there was a difference.

Additionally, I have yet to see anyone offer a plausible explanation for the "reverse placebo" effect that happened to me. I had high hopes for the Canare and Mogami cables. I had read great things about them, paid good money, and was excited when I got them. I just knew they were gonna sound killer. OTOH, I was resigned to throwing away my money with Evidence. I'll just give it a shot, why not, it's probably a waste tho.

Interesting thing is, if you really wanna get down to the physics/science of it, then every cable is different. All of them no 2 are identical...ever. The electrical signals are different with different cables, always. There always is an actual (though probably not measurable) difference with every cable.

Are these differences audible? Here's a radical idea: Maybe to some people and not to others.

I know that the other night, I forgot my Evidence and had to use my backup Canare. I was dreading it, and sure enough, I did not like the sound. AH HAH! You might say. "You were expecting it to sound bad so you heard what you were expecting."

Good idea, except that it worked in reverse the first time. So when the outcome is one you agree with, it verifies the placebo effect, but when the outcome is different, then...?

 

[Marcus Willett]

go back and read my responses. You'll note that I quite clearly wrote that I did audition an Evidence cable.

Fair enough, my bad for not catching that.

You did hear a difference tho, you just don't realize it.

 

[jacove]

Just to remind all people, this is no. 1 rule here on talkbass, at least we all should agree on this, and be able to share our opinion with respect for our different views...

"Address all forum members with the utmost respect at all times. If you do not agree with a fellow member, be courteous in your response. Thomas Jefferson said it best: "When I hear another express an opinion which is not mine, I say to myself, he has a right to his opinion, as I to mine".

Because of the limitations of text based communication, the expression of intent can be tricky. One of the most common triggers of rule violations is the misinterpretation of intent behind a post. Use smilies often, and remember, it never hurts to begin a response with "In my opinion"..."

 

[jacove]

I was just wondering what you guys say to all the reviews printed on the evidence site...are you also saying these guys are fooling themselves?....

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[Marcus Willett]

I was just wondering what you guys say to all the reviews printed on the evidence site...are you also saying these guys are fooling themselves?....

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Yes, they're imagining it. Just like I am and I guess you are too.

Poor us

 

[Modern Growl]

Smash, what kind of instrument cables do you use?
just curious

 

[Lyle Caldwell]

Unless you do this with a static sound source, it's invalid. If a human is playing the instrument, especially one who knows which cable is which, that'd render the tests completely uselss would it not?

We can at least all agree that the slightest, even inadvertent, change in fingering/plucking can change the tone dramatically?

I agree, and have thought about this.

One way to hear the cables would be just to record the same sine wave from a generetor through them, then line them up two at a time and reverse the polarity, seeing if we get total cancellation (no difference) or partial cancellation (and in what frequencies).

But that wouldn't be transferable to real world playing situations for most readers.

The other option is to record the bass played once into the POD using the Evidence (surely no one on the "other side" of the argument would claim this would give anything less than a stellar source) and then to the computer via USB. And then the computer track would be played back through the POD via USB and I would use one of the three cables to record this identical source three times.

The trouble with that is the signal from a bass is high impedence and the output of the POD is low impedence, so any tonal differences between the three cables would be severely minimalized.

The other option is for me to use a very short length of cable from the bass to an Axess BS2 buffer/splitter, and then all three cables at once from the Axess to the inputs of my MOTO A/D converters.

But again, the Axess would be converting the signal to low impedence.

Most blind tests of cable have been done using static sources, but those are critical tests where the source is expected to be low impedence, and any slight changes are still notable.

Bass amps and cabs lack the fidelity to translate such slight differences.

But given the statements in this thread, the Evidence should be such an obvious improvement that even using my first suggested method (same part played three times) should be sufficient to prove me wrong. It just has to be clearly better.

Right?

 

[Lyle Caldwell]

Monster audio cables are a rip off and are unreliable. Yes, their speaker cables do sound better than store-branded cables and Horizon, Rapco, etc. But that's due to a heavier gauge of wire, not to magic construction or mojo or gold teeth.

Use 12 gauge lamp wire with Neutrik Speakons or Neutrik/Switchcraft 1/4" plugs. If you are running more than one cab, make each speaker cable the exact same length. Play on.

 

[jacove]

I really think it would be a waste of time making those files why not just listen to monster vs. evidence on the evidence site if you want to compare 2 audio tracks...As I said earlier I did find the difference way bigger through my rig than my a/b on a 4-track

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[Lyle Caldwell]

A) Because Monster cables don't sound very good

B) Because Evidence is trying to sell us something. Therefore we can't trust their examples.

 

[jacove]

So we can agree that there are differences in cables, and some may prefer one brand to another?

 

[jacove]

OK, you say we cannot trust Evidence's example...but how can we trust your examples then? You seem just as committed to prove the opposite....