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Double Bass Existential Crisis
- Thread starter Thumpie
- Start date
The string length is a little longer on the Kay, so you do have to adjust when you switch. I don't feel that it's a big deal. I try to get used to 1/2 position and then at the heel for the D etc. Then get into thumb position and go from there. A little time for warm up pretty much does it.
My Kay is 42" and the bass I'm looking at is 41.25". Not really a huge difference. The heel is what worries me the most.
Your feedback is much appreciated.
You know, I auditioned for colleges on my old Kay, which was very badly set up. And I had a stand partner for a while (in a community orchestra, but still...) who'd gone through 4 years of music school playing a beat up old King. With a little love, you can make that Kay sound passable for arco.
Anyway, you've obviously got a wealth of great advice here, it's just a matter of thinking on it and deciding what to do. Recently, I've wondered about having a second bass myself. My current bass is a fantastic orchestra bass, but I wouldn't dream of bringing it into a bar to play dixieland or bluegrass - I'd rather have a $1000 beater that does alright when I want to pluck and whose safety I don't have to worry (as much) about.
Anyway, you've obviously got a wealth of great advice here, it's just a matter of thinking on it and deciding what to do. Recently, I've wondered about having a second bass myself. My current bass is a fantastic orchestra bass, but I wouldn't dream of bringing it into a bar to play dixieland or bluegrass - I'd rather have a $1000 beater that does alright when I want to pluck and whose safety I don't have to worry (as much) about.
You know, these were built as student instruments, but they were built for arco too. I assume they wouldn't have been successful if they hadn't been filling up high school orchestras across the continent.
I just spent a 1/2 hour bowing the Kay. And you know what? It's not as bad as I've got it in my mind. Maybe I just need to stop playing with my computer and get back to practicing.
Honestly, I think you're making a bigger thing of this than needed. Many players have Kays with upgraded fingerboards that they use for both pizz and arco. Many players have fine carved basses that they use for both. Bottom line is this, you'll have to compromise no matter what. The idea of a "dual use" string is not that developed. The qualities you like in a string for pizz may not be great for arco. The best solution is to decide which is the priority and get what works best for that. I had a teacher who played an old Kay both pizz and arco with Spirocores for many years, he recently upgraded to a carved bass and still uses Spiros (not only as practice, he bows on some albums too). The bottom line is YOU have to put in the work to get the best pizz and arco tone you can get regardless of the bass or the strings. The idea of buying a carved bass just to practice arco is a bit foolish. If you have the cash, buy a good carved or hybrid bass and keep the kay. You'll most likely use the carved bass more, but you'll have the Kay for those gigs where a carved bass isn't ideal.
Another thought is that maybe you need to investigate this desire to get another bass. Is the Kay Really working for you. If it was you probably wouldn't be so intent on another bass. It's just a thought.
I'm not exactly a closet bower but I'm close. I'll practice almost exclusively with a bow and then use it a little on the gig. I aspire to soloing more with it. I'm in the process of buying a new to me, arco bass and that's gonna allow me to play with string choices with my current bass. Gonna try super silvers 1st. Also looking to sell my carved to try an NS Cleveland.
So I'm using a second bass as an opportunity to try new things
So I'm using a second bass as an opportunity to try new things
This thread is starting to beat a dead horse with a stick.
Nothing will change in your mentality unless you try things out. You won't learn much about different basses just by going to a store and trying a few for a while. You need to take them home and start to develop a relationship.
Also, changing basses really isn't that bad if you're a good player. There are multiple players who don't play the same bass two days in a row because of tours, and they do great.
Nothing will change in your mentality unless you try things out. You won't learn much about different basses just by going to a store and trying a few for a while. You need to take them home and start to develop a relationship.
Also, changing basses really isn't that bad if you're a good player. There are multiple players who don't play the same bass two days in a row because of tours, and they do great.
Oh the humanity! Carved vs. Ply! Eb vs D neck! Arco vs. Pizz! What am I to do!?!?! 
You should just nut up to a better instrument and quit playing dumb gigs that make you stand on tables or make what you have work. I'd ditch the ply. Just take your lumps and suck it up princess. And you'll be so much the better for it! My $.02.
You should just nut up to a better instrument and quit playing dumb gigs that make you stand on tables or make what you have work. I'd ditch the ply. Just take your lumps and suck it up princess. And you'll be so much the better for it! My $.02.
Oh the humanity! Carved vs. Ply! Eb vs D neck! Arco vs. Pizz! What am I to do!?!?!
You should just nut up to a better instrument and quit playing dumb gigs that make you stand on tables or make what you have work. I'd ditch the ply. Just take your lumps and suck it up princess. And you'll be so much the better for it! My $.02.
Yes, well said! I would save some more money, then sell or trade your old Bass for the best Bass you can buy.
I started on a ply, sold that moved to a French carved,years later sold that and moved to a Prescott. All during this period playing Jazz and studying with the bow.It can be done. Today it is easier with more choices of strings that fit both styles. Olives and Eva Weichs come to mind. Just find something that will inspire you to play, and get after it. We all spend to much time worrying, when we could be practicing!!!
If you were stuck on a desert island, alone, with your Kay, would you practice arco? If not, then how bad do you want to be bowing anyway? Not to dissuade you from arco, see.
Like you said, don't think, just practice. More things should be obvious when you're as bad as you wanna be.
Like you said, don't think, just practice. More things should be obvious when you're as bad as you wanna be.
I think it's wise to practice on your performance instrument. If you can afford an "arco" bass, go for it! If not, have you thought of another bridge or set-up? I own two basses, hybrid 4-string and a carved 5-string, but both have set-ups for use as jazz OR orchestral basses. Neither is perfect for both situations, but they work for me. A set-up like this would certainly be a less expensive alternative. I'm sure that Bob Beerman would help you out if you did a little arm twisting! I've been in his shop - great place for bass!
Likewise, both my old Epiphone and my carved bass could either job, but they're best fit to specific settings....the Epi for blues, jazz and acoustic music, the carved for orchestral and pit. The hardest part wasn't setup, but finding some strings for the Epi that sounded good for arco.
I'm with you, Eric. I don't quite understand the popularity of Kays. I do know that when I got my first wood bass (I can't get used to saying "carved bass") bass in '62, I couldn't wait to get away from my Kay.I think you'll like the new bass so much that it will become your main instrument for pizz and arco. The kay will stand in the corner...
I don't even remember how I got rid of it-- probably for a song. It was better than my first bass-- a hideous white Epiphone! The only advantage the Kay had over a wood bass was that it was tough and dependable on the road.
No offense intended for Kay fans.
Yeah, it's coming back to me; that's what we used to say. Back in the day, Kays were subject to derision, much like "cocktail drums".
Update for anyone who's interested:
I've decided to go with the upgraded Kay option for now--a late '30s C-1. At the moment it's got Spiro Mittels and it shakes the windowpanes. I almost feel like I need to wear earplugs when playing it because it's starting to bother my tinnitus. The ebony board feels like glass and the bridge-arch/C-bout-clearance is almost exactly what I'm looking for.
I need a bass that will take a beating. And I want to see exactly how good a Kay can be for arco. I might even put some proper arco strings on it to hear what it can really do.
We'll see how far this takes me. Maybe in a year from now I'll be again looking at carved basses.
I've decided to go with the upgraded Kay option for now--a late '30s C-1. At the moment it's got Spiro Mittels and it shakes the windowpanes. I almost feel like I need to wear earplugs when playing it because it's starting to bother my tinnitus. The ebony board feels like glass and the bridge-arch/C-bout-clearance is almost exactly what I'm looking for.
I need a bass that will take a beating. And I want to see exactly how good a Kay can be for arco. I might even put some proper arco strings on it to hear what it can really do.
We'll see how far this takes me. Maybe in a year from now I'll be again looking at carved basses.
