Expensive basses - any point?

[wazzel]

To me once you get past the $1500-$2000 price range you start to loose the bang for the buck upgrades in quality. IMO $1500 bass is probably more than twice as good as a $750, but a $3000 bass in not twice as good as a $1500 one. I do notice the ease of play and different tones on the more expensive bass, but no way I would fork out $8k for a bass when I am not playing even part time for what I see as a minimal improvement in the overall construction of the bass. And besides I like what I play now.

 

[Brad Johnson]

On the Sadowsky price increase... has anything else gone up since 1999?


Heck, look at how much a Fender Jazz Deluxe 5 sold for back then vs. today. Has it been a 33% increase?

 

[Brad Johnson]

To me once you get past the $1500-$2000 price range you start to loose the bang for the buck upgrades in quality. IMO $1500 bass is probably more than twice as good as a $750, but a $3000 bass in not twice as good as a $1500 one. I do notice the ease of play and different tones on the more expensive bass, but no way I would fork out $8k for a bass when I am not playing even part time for what I see as a minimal improvement in the overall construction of the bass. And besides I like what I play now.

Understood. You have different needs/goals/etc.

 

[davec]

I will only offer my own experience, I've owned some really nice basses and some very good less expensive basses. I am a hibitual bass trader.

I tend to keep the high end basses longer and play them more often.
I've never regretted selling a lower cost bass, with two exceptions. I can not say the same thing about my boutique basses.

 

[Throckmorten]

To me once you get past the $1500-$2000 price range you start to loose the bang for the buck upgrades in quality. IMO $1500 bass is probably more than twice as good as a $750, but a $3000 bass in not twice as good as a $1500 one. I do notice the ease of play and different tones on the more expensive bass, but no way I would fork out $8k for a bass when I am not playing even part time for what I see as a minimal improvement in the overall construction of the bass. And besides I like what I play now.

That's true for just about everything.

Things get good and get better and it doesn't cost a lot to get them there. But after a point it becomes very expensive to make them better still and the improvements are not as dramatic cuz the good stuff is already pretty good. The cost/benefit ratio goes down and its up to the buyer to determine if it's worth paying for.

 

[dwanetom]

I started out on a Squire until I felt it was slowing me down; went to a MIM Jazz until I felt it was slowing me down; went to a MIA Jazz and so far it's keeping up with me. I'll stick with it until it slows me down and then I'll start looking up. Nothing is more worthless than a kid just getting his drivers license and his dad buys him a Mercedes.

 

[wazzel]

Understood. You have different needs/goals/etc.

If I had tons of spare money or was giging or recording making money I might feel differently. I just never got the "wow this is so much better than what I play now" feeling since I sold my lotus and got my Heartfield and Stingray. It has been more of a "this is kind of nice, worth considering" then I look at the price and do the value judgement thing. It never balances out to me.

 

[Rickett Customs]

Look at my profile.
I've owned multiple of most basses I've mentioned.
And yeah, I've played a few "dogs" costing over $2500.
I say $2500 because I had one that came in at that price that I sent back faster than a rented mule........
And have played Foderas costing over $9000 that played like a pile of dookie, but looked like a million bucks.
The thing was about as well built as anything I ever seen.
Just played bad.
In fact it was on the Fodera site for a while.
The caption was "The owner calls it 'The Beast'". And all the guys here who played it thought the same exact thing.
Looks great, but sound had no depth or dimension.
If I can find the picture of it I'll post it up.

My first Sadowsky cost me $3050. Loaded.
That same bass today is over $4000. Is it a $1000 better today than it was when I ordered mine?? (back in like 99).

These days if I want a boutique bass, I'll wait it out and find one used.

And yeah, custom adds a LOT to th price.

Now, I LOVE Sadowsky's. High end for sure.
Love the way the neck feels and the sound of the pre-amp & pick-ups.
And you pay for that sort of thing because it's unique to them.
Thats the only place you can get it.
Can come close, real close in a lot of cases, but to get all the elements I mentioned, you gotta get a Sadowsky.
But IMO, I'm yet to play or own a USA that besides the visual appeal (and maybe weight), is better in the three areas I mentioned- neck, pre & pick-ups.
The Metro's are pretty much on par build wise as the USA models. And $2000 less.
Like I said, I've owned MULTIPLE of each.

Accepted.

I think at this point the only better word I could use for comparison of Low end, high end, custom and A/B'ing through many individual perspectives = Self indulgence

It will be at each individual's own self indulgence

 

[MikeBass]

Because many folks including myself came to the conclusion that alot of the judgements that 70's Jazz basses were crap came from people who's likes/dislikes didn't mirror ours. Some were even just FOS. Heck, maybe most.

I know for a fact my 78 Jazz is not crap. I also know it's hardly a rarity to find a player. I also know that they're disappearing off the market due to time. Rarity + desirability = higher prices. Pretty simple actually.

Heck, my old 70's Jazz is one if the/if not the baddest basses I've ever owned.
At least in these parts, still most old Jazz bass are OK at best. Not any better than a new MIA Jazz.
IMO naturally.

Maybe. Maybe not. I don't know specifically what each builder charges. I will say that I currently have an Elrick, F Bass and Fodera here and there are most certainly differences between their takes on the instrument. So I can understand their pricing to be different too.

I picked up these three brands used.

Sure subtitles can be not so subtle or very.
A neck thru bass like my Fodera Garrison 5 and the my Smith BT5G are constructed pretty close. MASSIVE difference in price.
Beside the demand/supply factor in pricing, the difference is what???
Just that builders "take" on it.
Which, and after owning a few of both, Smith and Fodera are built pretty closely to one another.

Can't say I agree with that. It depends on who is building the bass. And if your $3k basses was no better in the fit/finish/attention to detail departments, what made you come to own it?

(bought them used)

So there's the answer.

Yeah, thats pretty much the only reason for the prices IMO- Supply and demand.
Why doesn't everyone charge $8000 for a bass????
I dunno, but speculation from me says that really only a few companies can get away with it right now, and if they all did, then they might not sell any. IMO FWIW.

But built by DIFFERENT luthiers nonetheless. If the F blows your skirt up and the Fodera doesn't, your answer will likely be "no". If the converse is true, the answer might well be "yes". They are two different basses, made by two different companies with two different visions of what they think constitutes a great bass.

Thanks for pointing out the obvious, I was speaking in general terms.

Is that not logical? Also, unless you're contending that supply and demand aren't factors, there's the other logical reason for the difference. If everyone "could" ask for and get $8k for a bass, do you think they wouldn't?

Sure, it's logical as the day is long, but explain why an ebony fingerboard from Fodera is a almost $1000 and Elrick $400????
There is NO logic in that.
Besides the fact that Fodera can/will/does get it.
Why?? Because if you want a Fodera with an ebony fingerboard, they are gonna charge you $1K for that board

Substitute Elrick for Fodera above and my answer remains the same. The market determines the price, the builder can't get more than that.

Lets get off the obvious again about supply/demand...thanks for the lesson BTW, but that was not what I was talking about....... anyway, an Fodera neck thru with a flame top for say $5000 has how much less of a Fodera with a uber-exotic top costing darn near twice that??
Is less attention placed on the details of the $5000??
Is the construction THAT significantly different???? (maybe)

Someone gave you a ton of crap over you selling one of your basses? I'm lucky in that I don't have anyone who'd have the balls to do that with me. Especially not a ton.

More of just friendly ribbing really, but a few guys thought the Alleva was the cats nuts and I was...well nuts for getting rid of it.
I dunno, maybe I am!!!

Agreed. Those were excellent basses IMO.

Were????
Are!!! LOL!!!
Heck, didn't they sell for like $1600 or so new??

That should apply to everyone, including those who choose to play more expensive basses... for whatever reason.

[/QUOTE]
I agree, I don't knock ANYONE for what they play.
I know a guy here in town, William Pope, who is literally one of the baddest players I EVER heard- EVER, light it up on one of his bands CD with a OLP MM5.
I need to find a link to his stuff- the guy is unreal!

It's all in the soul anyway. Not the wood and wires.
It's just up to the player to listen to his soul, and use his heart to be his voice- through his hands.
No bass, no matter the cost will IMO help that.

 

[Guest043]

its a good question

but it all depends on specifics. ive played $7,000 instruments that i wouldent pay $800 for. ive played $500 basses that id pay $1500 for.

but i know there are basses going for a little over 3 grand that are absolutely worth every penny and then some. ive been waiting for one for a bit over a year..

a fender jazz is the standard, that sure, is good enough. its like a toyota camry. its good enough, itll get you where you need to go. there certainly are some lambo type things out there though, that are a bit more luxurious..

 

[spade2you]

If I had tons of spare money or was giging or recording making money I might feel differently. I just never got the "wow this is so much better than what I play now" feeling since I sold my lotus and got my Heartfield and Stingray. It has been more of a "this is kind of nice, worth considering" then I look at the price and do the value judgement thing. It never balances out to me.

Out of curiosity, which custom basses have you played? Tone aside (no worries, they're great), my Rob Allens and CB absolutely blew me away with the sheer comfort. All are perfectly balanced, under 7.5lbs, and with extremely comfortable neck profiles. My Conklin was a tad heavier, but still comfortable and very managable.

 

[GremlinAndy]

I agree with Throckmorten.
there is an element of deminishing returns in the boutique market.
The difference between a $2000 bass and a $4000 bass may be minimal.
...It may be subtle.
...It may be as simple as a users requested preference, in the case of a handmade bass
...but to rise even a *little* above the mass produced (financially efficient) basses, costs money.
I think people will always buy the best bass the can afford, (or justify)
The people on here who are scoffing at buying a $3000 bass probably wouldn't exchange their $600 bass for a $100 bass. ...why? Well it's because they can afford the $600 bass which to them represents a better bass. (ok ok. I *know* that occasionally a cheap bass might sound better/feel better, than an expensive bass, but I'm speaking in generalities here to make a point)

My point is that I have quite a few expensive basses, and I believe the price I paid for them was acceptible for the differences I percieve in tone, and feel. However my disposable income is very high.

If I wasn't paid so well, I might feel differently about the cost of those differences.

You definitely get a better bang-for-buck from cheap basses, but to me the expensive subtle differences are *all* the diference.

 

[wazzel]

Out of curiosity, which custom basses have you played? Tone aside (no worries, they're great), my Rob Allens and CB absolutely blew me away with the sheer comfort. All are perfectly balanced, under 7.5lbs, and with extremely comfortable neck profiles. My Conklin was a tad heavier, but still comfortable and very managable.

Pedulla (MVP and Rapture), MTD usa, conklin are the only three I can remember right now. I have not bought a new bass since 1996. I have played lots of others in that time, but nothing that knocked my socks off to the point where I could justify spending $3k plus on a bass.

 

[Bassmickeyd]

The old saying goes; "We buy what we read in the paper."
If we like it, we don't care what we've paid for it.
If we don't and have to resell it, we do.
The ones we keep in our hands are the ones we wish to play.
And we all pay to play.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Sure subtitles can be not so subtle or very.
A neck thru bass like my Fodera Garrison 5 and the my Smith BT5G are constructed pretty close. MASSIVE difference in price.
Beside the demand/supply factor in pricing, the difference is what???

I saw that you called this pointing out the obvious but it certainly seems warranted if you're asking the question. A Smith typically nails the Smith vibe. They have a very recognizable sound, especially when slapped. I've never played a Garrison that made me think of a Smith. they're very different basses.

Just that builders "take" on it.
Which, and after owning a few of both, Smith and Fodera are built pretty closely to one another.

I personally have never found one that reminded me of the other. Maybe you're limiting this to fit and finish and not what happens when you plug them in.

(bought them used)

I'd only buy a bass I didn't like used for resale value.

Yeah, thats pretty much the only reason for the prices IMO- Supply and demand.
Why doesn't everyone charge $8000 for a bass????
I dunno, but speculation from me says that really only a few companies can get away with it right now, and if they all did, then they might not sell any. IMO FWIW.

I know why... because they don't have the demand to be able to do that. It's actually pretty simple.

Thanks for pointing out the obvious, I was speaking in general terms.

I was answering a pretty specific question on your part, so while you may have meant this to be general, it doesn't read that way: "I've asked this question a bunch of times, but NO ONE yet has been able to answer it logically: is a $8000 Fodera more than $4000 better than a F-Bass????
Both hand built by some of the best luthiers known today using the best woods available"

That's what I responded to.

t's logical as the day is long, but explain why an ebony fingerboard from Fodera is a almost $1000 and Elrick $400????
There is NO logic in that. Besides the fact that Fodera can/will/does get it. Why?? Because if you want a Fodera with an ebony fingerboard, they are gonna charge you $1K for that board

You've already stated the logic behind it... because the can/will/do. How much should an ebony fingerboard cost? What's the standard price?

That's right... there is none. So the builder can set their price and the buyer can decide if they'll spend it. There's more to the pricing than the cost of the lumber. and even the cost of the lumber can vary... it could be very old growth or off the hull of a steamboat or the old stage at Carnegie Hall... who knows?

I do know that Kevin Brubaker charges $200 for an ebony board. I'm guessing it doesn't have a story behind it.

I remember a thread on here a while back with someone complaining about what F bass charged to do inlays. There was much wringing of hands but I thought what George was doing made sense, most likely based on what he wanted to do. To do inlays, here's what it would take to make it worth his while. Nothing sinister about that IMO.

Lets get off the obvious again about supply/demand...thanks for the lesson BTW, but that was not what I was talking about....... anyway, an Fodera neck thru with a flame top for say $5000 has how much less of a Fodera with a uber-exotic top costing darn near twice that??
Is less attention placed on the details of the $5000??
Is the construction THAT significantly different???? (maybe)

While I obviously can't explain the nuances of Fodera's pricing structure (translation: I'm neither Vinny nor Joey), the uber exotic tops are typically more expensive and some can be harder to work with. Factor in attrition and suddenly you're talking about real money. Now of course a business can ignore that but that's not very bright.

Once they've gained the experience of knowing the tricks to working with problematic woods, should they lower their prices?

Covering their costs is a big factor with any builder. That includes all the normal business expenses that many seem to ignore and when you're dealing with exotic wood, you typically pay for the wood whether it works out or not. All of that needs to be covered in the costs.

Everyone is not a potential Fodera customer. Or Elrick. Or Smith. Or even Brubaker. Some people will never spend that kind of money on an instruments. And the instruments are not aimed at those people anyway. Yeah, I know that should be obvious. By the same token, for the people who do want to spend that kind of money, because that's what they cost, I just don't run into many customers who are baffled by the pricing. It is what it is, you only have to pay if you want to be a customer.

More of just friendly ribbing really, but a few guys thought the Alleva was the cats nuts and I was...well nuts for getting rid of it.
I dunno, maybe I am!!!

I know better than to comment on that, Mike.


A friendly ribbing is could. If they actually gave you crap over it, I'd tell them I'd keep the next bass they provided me. Otherwise, let's take a trip to the nearest beach... there will probably be lots of sand they can pound.

Were????
Are!!! LOL!!!
Heck, didn't they sell for like $1600 or so new??

I forget. Yeah, at the time they were very nice basses. Not cheap either.

I agree, I don't knock ANYONE for what they play.
I know a guy here in town, William Pope, who is literally one of the baddest players I EVER heard- EVER, light it up on one of his bands CD with a OLP MM5.
I need to find a link to his stuff- the guy is unreal!

It's all in the soul anyway. Not the wood and wires.
It's just up to the player to listen to his soul, and use his heart to be his voice- through his hands.
No bass, no matter the cost will IMO help that.

Some basses can just seem to get out of the way more than others IME. By that I mean that you don't even think about the bass or rig and you can just express yourself. I'm lucky in the fact that I've found way too many basses that do that for me.

 

[denchiq]

Here's my worm to your can:

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

I like this easy on-line game . In fact, I only played it twice but I am still smiling when I recollect it. First time I was trying to be reasonable, and it was little less than $21 000. Second time I took time and it was over $32 000.

$600-1100 for a flame maple top? Hmmm, can I order THREE?


P.S. I think to keep the elite-ness aura they really should charge $200 for you just to look up the on-line custom quote

 

[Eminor3rd]

Whether or not the sound is "better" is up to you, but I would absolutely argue that all basses, low to high end, have a "unique" tone, even if certain comparisons are sometimes subtle. I didn't buy my Pedulla because it was expensive, I bought it because I polayed it and it felt and sounded better than anything I'd ever played. The price was just an (extremely difficult) obstacle; I would have felt the same about it if it cost $100.

 

[Eminor3rd]

Here's my worm to your can:

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

I like this easy on-line game . In fact, I only played it twice but I am still smiling when I recollect it. First time I was trying to be reasonable, and it was little less than $21 000. Second time I took time and it was over $32 000.

$600-1100 for a flame maple top? Hmmm, can I order THREE?


P.S. I think to keep the elite-ness aura they really should charge $200 for you just to look up the on-line custom quote

The Tree of Life inlay costs $6,000. Lol.

 

[habla]

I have never paid more than $600 for a bass, or any piece of musical equipment, but i like to eat and pay rent, what can I say Im weird like that. I dont personally see the point in expensive basses and to be quite honest I am more than happy with what i get out of my t-40's ($75 and $160 if price tags are what your into) and i dont plan on getting anything else bass wise, besides everyone knows boutique basses are tools of the Bourgeoisie.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Sweet, I'm part of the proletariat.











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