Expensive shots in the dark

[Joshua Vance]

I live in BFE so I can’t easily test really any high end amps or cabs that interest me, but long story short, is there any reason a Demeter 800d and bergantino NV 2x12 would be a bad combination? I play a fretless j, from rock to jazz and Latin. I don’t really know internally what a sealed cab sounds like from a ported one, but the description of tighter bottom end sounds appealing. I ventured into the Demeter idea going off a lot of what I had read about its accuracy and transparent sound, at home I tended to favor the sound of my bass direct into protools out of Yamaha monitors over my ampeg combo (obviously low volumes) any advice would be greatly appreciated!

 

[JRA]

I don’t really know internally what a sealed cab sounds like from a ported one, but the description of tighter bottom end sounds appealing..... at home I tended to favor the sound of my bass direct into protools out of Yamaha monitors over my ampeg combo (obviously low volumes)

with a sealed cabinet: we can't play the lowest notes with the same amount of 'boom' because of an inherent low-end roll-off. but because the air inside of a sealed cabinet is 'spring-y-er' = the speaker gives a punchier, 'tighter' sound. IME: they 'feel' a bit more responsive/articulate. but you give up some of the lowest, low-end.

duplicating the sound of your pro tools-to-reference monitors-to-ears is impossible for all kinds of reasons, but the rig you're talking about will definitely get you heard in a live playdown! fretless through that rig = cool beans! good luck with your considerations.

 

[jeff7bass]

I would think a sealed cab would sound better with a fretless. You want those "muwahs" in the mid-frequencies to be heard and not lost by a overbearing low end. I can't imagine the pairing of those two sounding anything other than fantastic.

 

[TransylvaniaE]

Agreed
I'd rock a sealed cab anyday

And my opinion wouldn't be based on what it is. Or how it appears on paper.

The actual sound in the room counts more

 

[Joshua Vance]

I would think a sealed cab would sound better with a fretless. You want those "muwahs" in the mid-frequencies to be heard and not lost by a overbearing low end. I can't imagine the pairing of those two sounding anything other than fantastic.

Cool. I believe I have an idea of the “boomy” sound that I’m not wanting, pretty much what comes to mind when I play through this 90s Fender combo at the rehearsal spot, the only reason I use it over the Ampeg ba115hp which I just sold is because it’s a little more powerful but both still are very much less than I need and I don’t think my bass sounds like itself through either.

Definitely looking to have thick and tight clarity that you can feel right in pelvis. Hoping the glassy highs I’ve read about the Demeter allow for better distinction with octave and phase effects too.

 

[TransylvaniaE]

Ampeg tends to make their sealed cabs a little small. And things tend to bloom with small sealed cabs
The notes are tight but some notes will bloom. My 810E and 410HE had a distinct bloom. I like it, others could whine a little about it

For a decent balanced sound
The old Genz Benz 212t NeoX
Is a good used cab to look or wait for.
Handles a decent amount of power as well

 

[Joshua Vance]

with a sealed cabinet: we can't play the lowest notes with the same amount of 'boom' because of an inherent low-end roll-off. but because the air inside of a sealed cabinet is 'spring-y-er' = the speaker gives a punchier, 'tighter' sound. IME: they 'feel' a bit more responsive/articulate. but you give up some of the lowest, low-end.

duplicating the sound of your pro tools-to-reference monitors-to-ears is impossible for all kinds of reasons, but the rig you're talking about will definitely get you heard in a live playdown! fretless through that rig = cool beans! good luck with your considerations.

I think I understand what you’re saying about not being able to replicate the monitor/interface sound. I guess I was hoping that the Demeter would be a bigger more powerful version of the accurate sound I’m hearing when I plug direct in my little bedroom studio. Like, I feel like I’m hearing way more of the string choice and pickups unique character, possibly the wood, when it’s direct. The Fender, GK and Ampeg combos I’ve used so far never let these things shine as well as I’d like and usually just have a general loud and low sound, although the GK was by far the best sounding. Wish I knew the model specifics but theyre just what others allow me to use in my different groups. I owned and sold the Ampeg ba115hp

 

[TransylvaniaE]

Newer amps seem to be baked in with compression or limiters to deal with the class D power amps.

Something incredibly simple like a Hartke
LM500 and 1000 get straight to the point.
Really depends on your cabinet as far as
Being too blurry or bright enough.
Otherwise even a 500 has more than enough power for any cabinet

Very affordable used, and light in my book

 

[micguy]

I would think a sealed cab would sound better with a fretless. You want those "muwahs" in the mid-frequencies to be heard and not lost by a overbearing low end. I can't imagine the pairing of those two sounding anything other than fantastic.

I play through a lot of huge PA's with fretted and fretless. There's nothing at all wrong with having good solid low end with a fretless - it doesn't detract from the mwah one bit - they're so far from each other spectrally, one does not affect the other.

 

[jthisdell]

Not sure where BFE is but a Berg anything is good and will go well with any quality amp

 

[Ewo]

My .02:

To get more of a reference monitor/headphones/DAW sound, you'll want a touch of compression.

My current fave (and I've been through more than a few) is the new Empress bass compressor in front of my amp. Really gives your tone a nice sheen without robbing the dynamics. Whatever compressor you might try, set it for a light compression ratio. And if there's a mix feature--parallel compression, it's called--try about 50/50.

 

[jeff7bass]

I play through a lot of huge PA's with fretted and fretless. There's nothing at all wrong with having good solid low end with a fretless - it doesn't detract from the mwah one bit - they're so far from each other spectrally, one does not affect the other.

I disagree. Most fretless players want an upright "woody" sound and overpowering low-end is no friend to that, plus you don't hear what the crowd hears when up onstage. Very few sound guys I've heard get the whole "tone" aspect of bass playing. It's highs, lows and volume for most of them. I agree with what JRA said about sealed cabs being more articulate by nature, although I realize that the sound can be cleaned up with EQ and filtering.

 

[Joshua Vance]

My .02:

To get more of a reference monitor/headphones/DAW sound, you'll want a touch of compression.

My current fave (and I've been through more than a few) is the new Empress bass compressor in front of my amp. Really gives your tone a nice sheen without robbing the dynamics. Whatever compressor you might try, set it for a light compression ratio. And if there's a mix feature--parallel compression, it's called--try about 50/50.

is use the mxr bass comp pedalwith the meter live. I like the stock 1176 plug in a lot for recorded stuff so far.

 

[Joshua Vance]

Not sure where BFE is but a Berg anything is good and will go well with any quality amp

No berg or Demeter dealers in Ohio as far as I know.

 

[micguy]

I disagree. Most fretless players want an upright "woody" sound and overpowering low-end is no friend to that, ...

I like good solid low end - extended, not rolled off. Done well, that can shake your boots when you play a low note, but it's not "overpowering" at all. I don't play places with boomy PA's, I play places where they're well set up. Perhaps that's the reason we differ.

 

[jeff7bass]

I like good solid low end - extended, not rolled off. Done well, that can shake your boots when you play a low note, but it's not "overpowering" at all. I don't play places with boomy PA's, I play places where they're well set up. Perhaps that's the reason we differ.

That's fine but but "extended" to some means unnatural to others. It's not like the NV212 won't put out any low-end. I'll quote member Chadwick123 when he said, "The Aguilar db751 and the NV212T is probably the greatest pairing of amp and cab I have ever heard in my life. The sealed nature of the cab and its particular voicing just takes out all the wonky sub lows of the Aguilar and adds a lot of immediate transient attack. The cab acts like a natural high pass filter on the amp. What you wind up with is a very balanced iteration of that pillowy Aguilar tone that is super warm and smooth." Here's the whole thread.
Bergantino NV212T | TalkBass.com

 

[MultiScaleMale]

There is a lot of good gear out there now and the results of most will be a slightly different flavor of good. Unless you go with a Darkglass head, I think the cab is going to dominate the results. You need something that is reliable, isn't going to fart out, sounds good - probably in that order. It sounds like you're looking for quality gear so I don't think you'll have any issues in reliability or cabs the fart out. There are only two cabs I would not recommend and I'll withhold to avoid the inevitable war. I'm a big fan of the Mesa Subway lineup, not sure if the voicing would do much for you.

 

[The Nameless]

I play fretless a TON in all kinds of styles and situations. I use an old Demeter pre and a Crown power amp into a 212. I have a lot of cabs and amps at my disposal. And also have played a lot thru a Demeter integrated, 800w head. The 212 is the best cab, voicing wise, I have for fretless. And the Demeter is as accurate as anything on a planet I've tried, and I've tried lots.

I think the combo you describe would be great!!! The newer Demeter has ALL the tools to combat any room, including two bands of parametric eq. And, tho I prefer my old 201 for its simplicity, the newer Demeter pre is a bit tighter to my ears. I think you'd be very pleased with its response thru a high end 212 like the Berg. I don't think there's a way that rig could fail any situation.

By the way... Controlled, balanced low end is a great friend to fretless. Helps a player's intonation immensely. And the feel of the band. But that is a secondary concern vs articulation. It's great that today we can have both!

 

[micguy]

That's fine but but "extended" to some means unnatural to others.

Extension means that the bandwidth goes down low - by definition, it reproduces what is there (no more, not less), even if it's low in frequency. Gear that's limited in bandwidth has more phase shift (phase shift occurs when you get to the limits of your gear's bandwidth) than gear that has extended bandwidth. It's more natural, not less. If some people are confused about that, OK - I can appreciate that not everyone knows this stuff, but additional bandwidth is by no means unnatural.

 

[Joshua Vance]

I play fretless a TON in all kinds of styles and situations. I use an old Demeter pre and a Crown power amp into a 212. I have a lot of cabs and amps at my disposal. And also have played a lot thru a Demeter integrated, 800w head. The 212 is the best cab, voicing wise, I have for fretless. And the Demeter is as accurate as anything on a planet I've tried, and I've tried lots.

I think the combo you describe would be great!!! The newer Demeter has ALL the tools to combat any room, including two bands of parametric eq. And, tho I prefer my old 201 for its simplicity, the newer Demeter pre is a bit tighter to my ears. I think you'd be very pleased with its response thru a high end 212 like the Berg. I don't think there's a way that rig could fail any situation.

By the way... Controlled, balanced low end is a great friend to fretless. Helps a player's intonation immensely. And the feel of the band. But that is a secondary concern vs articulation. It's great that today we can have both!

Appreciate the warm and enthusiastic response! Hopefully putting a little rig together after my Xmas bonus.