Experiences with EV Evolve 30M or 50M ?

[pfschim]

Looking for a way to simplify my live sound life in a small group, modest volume situations.

I currently have a QSC system with K10.2's for mains, KS112 for a sub, and CP8's for monitors. I was using a Soundcraft Ui24r as a mixer for this system, but it died a few months ago and I have been getting by with a basic Yamaha analog 10ch mixer with limited options.

I re-discovered that I REALLY don't want to run sound from the stage and perform on top of that. But of course, I don't have a good, cheap sound tech handy so I'll probably keep running sound.

It occurred to me that using a modern all-in-one stick on sub type system might simplify my live sound life. Talking with another band I know they suggested the EV Evolve 30M or 50M systems. EV is a live sound company with a solid reputation. The 30/50M systems include an 8 channel mixer built into the base/sub. I think I could work with that for the duo project this is mostly used for.

So, anyone have any experiences they want to share with the EV Evolve 30M or 50M ? ... or even a similar system from another brand ?

Thanks

 

[s0c9]

Used the 50M on at least a dozen gigs.
BL owned it, but I was the FOH guy.. while playing bass.
Worked great for smaller venues or clubs, but he subs ain't huge. The columns put out decent quality sound and it's pretty portable and VERY EASY to set up.
We used it with a Mackie DL16S, NOT standalone.
Plug L (or R) out of mixer into Input-1 on sub, then adjust input gain (master vol) to taste.
No cable to daisy chain to the top array - it's built into the stand.
With the DSP set the MODE to LIVE or CLUB (your taste), then asjust the various frequencies to taste, or leave at defaults. We bumped up the subs level a bit (IIRC).
Everything else on the DSP is up to you.
They worked well for us in VFW's, Am Legion halls and BBQ/Burger restaurants..
And.. repeat the same for the other side - making sure you match DSP + Master volume/gain setttings.

 

[Wasnex]

I haven't used either of the Evolve. They seem to be held in higher regard than most stick array systems.

I mixed for about two months on a pair of the original Bose L1s paired with a four of the B1 bass modules. My biggest complaint about this system was extremely limited headroom. The EVOLVE are significantly louder (something like 9db)

Comments about the Bose System:

• They were very light and quick to set up.
• Less conspicuous than the typical woofer/horn box on a tripod.
• HF dispersion was much narrower than rated. This was true for both Horizontal and Vertical dispersion.
• They had a phasey quality in the low treble range.
  • This gave cymbals and the harmonics of female voices sort of a grainy quality.
  • I believe this is due to the spacing between the drivers in relation to wavelength in low treble frequency range. For example, the wavelength at 6.3K is 2.14" and I believe the drivers were about 3".
• SPL capability was low VS cost of buying. A K8.2 is rated for higher SPL than an Evolve 50. However EVOLVE plays lower.
• LF pattern control was lost at a much higher frequency than a typical woofer/horn design.
  • Again this is do the the size of the drivers and baffle in relation to wavelength.
• Mids threw much further than lows.
  • SPL of a point source drops off at 6dB per doubling of distance. For the range where the array operates as a line source, the SPL drops of at 3dB per doubling of distance.

The limited vertical HF dispersion meant they could be aimed to cover standing people or sitting people, but not both. AFAIK the Evolve is sort of a J array, which may solve this problem.

The limited horizontal HF dispersion meant that the highs would be lost in the middle unless I moved the columns closer to the center of the band, rather than placing them on the edges of the ensemble.

The reduced LF pattern control meant the low mids wrapped around the columns and fed back into the mics. This was exacerbated by the need to have the columns closer to the center, where the lead singers stood. I eventually mitigated this by dialing in even more of a mid scoop than I normally used. IME this issue becomes more problematic as the volume is increased and the Evolve 50s can play significantly louder than the original Bose L1.

AFAIK EV doesn't publish polar plots for EVOLVE. The following are the polar plots for original Bose L1.

 

[pfschim]

Thanks Was, typically very thorough post. Not quite sure what the vertical and horizontal plots suggest. I have heard a few of these systems (Bose, Yamaha, JBL) in action and they have sounded pretty decent to me as a listener.

My main goal would be to significantly reduce my load-in/out and setup time, and several live performers I know locally have told me they are able to cut their set-up time in more than half. For the project that I would mainly use this system, I'm starting to feel like the associated compromises would be worth it.

 

[pepj]

The K10 and Ksub system you have with 8 monitors is very capable and will easily do 200 people outside with a 5 piece band who are sensible with sound and backline, imv.
We use QSC in almost the exact same format and are known for our sound.

I'd be suggesting the EV30/50 is a downgrade in capability...and thats on the basis of past Line set ups not this specific one, but...you aren't asking it to do much by comparison.

Band? no
Duo? should do fine.

Personally, I'd save the money..run the CP8 with a small sub or the 10.2's alone.

 

[kevk]

Retired 4th grade teacher here…brief background story: we had a pathetic music program—decided to start my own after-school rock band. Sold 3 Sadowsky NYC’s to fund everything…2x EV50 (prior to “M” model) towers, UI24R, 3-keyboards, bass guitar, acoustic drum set, Nord drum pad, mics, etc. Set up/tore down 4 days a week, plus gigs…for 2+ years. They worked flawlessly, sounded great; very quiet noise floor; loud/plenty of headroom to fill our gymnasium-size venue.

We dual used as (rear/side) monitors (towers toe’d in slightly) for the 6 band players (but added two front floor monitors for the 7 singers)… Did not have feedback issue with the EV’s.

I chose the EV system, because it didn’t require cables between tower/subwoofer. Extremely quick and easy to set up…listened to multiple systems at GC—loudest, good headroom, really nice overall sound!

Two things I learned…(1) purchased the subwoofer gig bags, with built-in wheels! Highly recommend/totally worth it! (2) the system sounded really great with bass guitar…but could’ve used additional 18” subs, for legit kick drum punch.

Liked the system so much that I sold the 50’s and UI24R—now have 2x EV 50M’s, for my own use—post retirement. Love the 50M system, but the mixer operation is fairly basic—quite a bit less control, coming from the UI24R.

I haven’t used the 50M’s as regularly, during the past 2-years—they may have added more app mixer features, since I last updated. Iirc, no dedicated hp/lpf’s and phantom power is always applied to Ch 1-4 (1/4”~xlr) combo jacks. Built-in mixer may/may not be large enough, depending on your band needs. I didn’t compare the 50M to the 30M…

Again, didn’t experience feedback issues, positioning a single tower more from the rear (to dual serve as a monitor)…2x towers (slightly toe’d in) works great for monitoring purposes, too. Dual purpose—the point being—minimize the amount of sound equipment needed. : )

 

[NickFromNY]

I own and use a single 30m for a majority of my solo gigs. I've owned the 50 (not the M version) before as well. Both are great for what they do. They will not go toe to toe in total volume with your current QSC set up and that's not what they are made for. Think fullness and not volume with any stick system. With the EV system you will get more coverage area than you are getting with your QSC system. I think the QSC has a 90 degree dispersion vs 130 degrees for the EV. For a solo/duo act, the EV's are a homerun and I play 5-6 nights a week with mine covering most of those gigs. The set-up time is less than 10 minutes from car to first note. The built-in mixer in the 30m is good, but basic as noted. You could always use a small external mixer with it if you prefer. I find the EV mixer gets me to a very good place sound-wise. Is it as good and full-featured as my MR18 or CQ20b... no but I never get complaints on my sound and have often been complimented on being able to play at a resonable volume with such a full sound that covers the entire room. They are better indoors than outside, but are more than capable outdoors too depending on the coverage area. There is a big difference in weight between the 30m and 50(m).. I leave my car with my guitar on my back, 30m sub in one hand and tops in the other with a mic stand and away I go.. the 50s may need a cart of some sort or the case with wheels. I have used 2 50s with my 4 piece band with an external sub included and it sounded great also, but your QSC system would handle that better, probably.

 

[pfschim]

great! thanks for the positive, real world reviews of the EV systems. It's sounding more and more likely that at least one of the EVO 50M's will work for my duo/trio project.

I know the QSC system has more overall power/coverage, but I'm getting tired of hauling/setting up the full rig for the duo/trio gigs. The 8ch mixer plus bluetooth on the 50M will cover my input needs just fine and if I need a "bit more" I always have the QSC rig to work with. We usually only use a bit of EQ and reverb on the QSC/Yamaha system, and from reading the online docs and replies here, it seems as if I would have those capabilities with the EV. For bass, I will likely still use a small rig (Mesa WD800 => Berg CN112) just so I was not entirely dependent on the EV for bass coverage. A big plus from kevk's reply was that he was able to use the EV somewhat behind him for monitoring ... that would be a huge improvement right there.

It's kind of whinny I know, but I'm tired of 2 or 3 hr gigs becoming 4-5hr gigs due to using the larger PA. I've spoken to a few local musicians I know who are using these all-in-one stick systems and they all say the load-in/out and set up is significantly less than traditional PA, and that really appeals to me at this point as long as the EV will handle our very modest volume needs.

thanks again for the replies! very helpful and encouraging.

 

[s0c9]

great! thanks for the positive, real world reviews of the EV systems. It's sounding more and more likely that at least one of the EVO 50M's will work for my duo/trio project.

I know the QSC system has more overall power/coverage, but I'm getting tired of hauling/setting up the full rig for the duo/trio gigs. The 8ch mixer plus bluetooth on the 50M will cover my input needs just fine and if I need a "bit more" I always have the QSC rig to work with. We usually only use a bit of EQ and reverb on the QSC/Yamaha system, and from reading the online docs and replies here, it seems as if I would have those capabilities with the EV. For bass, I will likely still use a small rig (Mesa WD800 => Berg CN112) just so I was not entirely dependent on the EV for bass coverage. A big plus from kevk's reply was that he was able to use the EV somewhat behind him for monitoring ... that would be a huge improvement right there.

It's kind of whinny I know, but I'm tired of 2 or 3 hr gigs becoming 4-5hr gigs due to using the larger PA. I've spoken to a few local musicians I know who are using these all-in-one stick systems and they all say the load-in/out and set up is significantly less than traditional PA, and that really appeals to me at this point as long as the EV will handle our very modest volume needs.

thanks again for the replies! very helpful and encouraging.

FWIW - I did NOT use a bass amp with the 50M gigs. The subs were quite capable of producing enough bass for the venues we played.
Hence, my prior comment about bumping up the sub level a bit
YMMV.

 

[pfschim]

FWIW - I did NOT use a bass amp with the 50M gigs. The subs were quite capable of producing enough bass for the venues we played.
Hence, my prior comment about bumping up the sub level a bit
YMMV.

got it, but I generally do use a small bass rig in many situations, as much for monitoring as filling out the bottom end. So I would probably continue to do that anyway. It's not my small bass rig that takes so much time to set-up, it's the dang PA

 

[N. Kentucky Bass]

A few more thoughts on the 50M....

I looked into all the major brand options for stick PAs to use for live performances in assisted living centers and nursing homes. Quick, 10-minute load-in and setup, simple operation, wide dispersion of sound, eliminate need for floor monitors and cables and speaker stands running all over the place. The 50M seemed like an excellent, higher-end option. The 30M would have sufficed, but I wanted the extra headroom for outdoor performances ... and headroom! The built-in amps pump 500 watts into the subwoofer and 500 watts into the array respectively--1,000 watts total so the 50M is rated for 127dB. If that's not loud enough for typical small-to-mediumish gigs, you need to get hearing aids.

The 50M can be daisy chained for large venues. For example, you can use a pair on stage, a pair further out, and another pair even further from the stage. Each extra cab or pair can be time delayed so the whole venue has integrated sound projection. It literally fills the whole house.

Speaking of sound, the 50M sounds absolutely superb. Zero issues with that.

OP will appreciate I use a Soundcraft Ui24R instead of the built-in mixer. The built-in mixer is adequate for a handful of inputs, EQ is very modest but serviceable.

After getting the 50M, I decided to sell my large Barefaced Super Twin (2x12) and, for louder gigs where I was simply providing my own stage sound to carry the room, use the 50M instead with the short pole mount option. It's quite discrete, and since the array is by your ears, you will hear the true sound of your bass like never before. Quite an eye opener! Your bandmates might bitch and moan about how it looks, but their mouths will instantly slam shut when their hear the girth and slam of your bass through the 50M. Here are pics to show the relative sizes of a 50M rig with tall and short poles on the array.

 

[N. Kentucky Bass]

Here are the 50M beamwidth and polar plots that I got from an Electro-Voice engineer.

 

[walterw]

The 30/50M systems include an 8 channel mixer built into the base/sub. I think I could work with that for the duo project this is mostly used for.

duo project?

the 30 will be perfect, the 50 more than enough

 

[walterw]

After getting the 50M, I decided to sell my large Barefaced Super Twin (2x12) and, for louder gigs where I was simply providing my own stage sound to carry the room, use the 50M instead with the short pole mount option. It's quite discrete, and since the array is by your ears, you will hear the true sound of your bass like never before. Quite an eye opener! Your bandmates might bitch and moan about how it looks, but their mouths will instantly slam shut when their hear the girth and slam of your bass through the 50M.

wait, you've made the 50 your bass rig?

that seems crazy but it makes all kinds of sense, right down to being not so heavy to lug around

 

[N. Kentucky Bass]

duo project?

the 30 will be perfect, the 50 more than enough

Also note the respective weights: the heaviest element is the subwoofer. The 30M sub weighs 35lbs; the 50M weighs 45lbs.

 

[pfschim]

Also note the respective weights: the heaviest element is the subwoofer. The 30M sub weighs 35lbs; the 50M weighs 45lbs.

For PA, I'm currently hauling 2 QSC K10.2's (37lbs x 2) a KS112 sub (62.6lbs) and 2 QSC CP8's (21lbs x2) for monitors. In addition I have to haul all the XLR's and power to connect/power these boxes. So, a 45lb sub on the EV 50M will be a huge reduction in gross weight (148lbs vs 45lbs) and car hauling space. I believe I'll also need fewer XLR's (0 output XLRs for sure), and less power cords. Plus with the built in mixer, I'll be able to leave my stand alone analog mixer at home.

As for the 30M vs 50M, it seems to me that I'd rather go a bit bigger and not need it, vs go smaller and wish I had bigger in some venues.

So, all-in-all, it feels like the right thing to do for the duo project (which is maybe turning into a trio, but thats another story for another time )

 

[N. Kentucky Bass]

As for the 30M vs 50M, it seems to me that I'd rather go a bit bigger and not need it, vs go smaller and wish I had bigger in some venues.

So, all-in-all, it feels like the right thing to do for the duo project (which is maybe turning into a trio, but thats another story for another time )

That is precisely why I went with the 50M -- just in case, especially for outdoor performances in the targeted facilities. Also, the 50M is a 1,000-watt monster if you're using it solely to project bass guitar.

 

[pfschim]

That is precisely why I went with the 50M -- just in case, especially for outdoor performances in the targeted facilities. Also, the 50M is a 1,000-watt monster if you're using it solely to project bass guitar.

well, I'm perfectly ok to bring my small bass rig (Mesa WD800 into a Berg CN112), but if I found that the 50M could really cover the bass needs, that would be even better. I have not had great luck with bass into any of the usual small-ish PA options. Even with my QSC system, which is plenty powerful, I find that I prefer to have the sound of a quality dedicated bass rig behind me. It's not pants flappingly huge, but it just sounds and feels better to me.

OTOH, when I get big pro-FOH support with good monitoring, I am always perfectly happy to do without the personal bass rig.

 

[kevk]

well, I'm perfectly ok to bring my small bass rig (Mesa WD800 into a Berg CN112), but if I found that the 50M could really cover the bass needs, that would be even better. I have not had great luck with bass into any of the usual small-ish PA options. Even with my QSC system, which is plenty powerful, I find that I prefer to have the sound of a quality dedicated bass rig behind me. It's not pants flappingly huge, but it just sounds and feels better to me.

OTOH, when I get big pro-FOH support with good monitoring, I am always perfectly happy to do without the personal bass rig.

I was pleasantly surprised how good bass guitar sounded (direct thru a 50, and subsequently 50M)…

Funny story, I made the “mistake” of bringing a good size Bergantino rig for the first student gig… once my 10 year old bass player (who was becoming quite good) played in front of it—no turning back for gigs after that—just brought her whatever Berg rig I had on hand at the time (daily practice was thru the EV 50 though…: ))

 

[rocu]

So @pfschim , did you order the 50M yet?