No idea.
But delays are usually indicated with rests. And if the rest value is repeated, as opposed to being random, it can be assigned a value.
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Explain *lazy beat" to me
- Thread starter IamGroot
- Start date
No idea.
But delays are usually indicated with rests. And if the rest value is repeated, as opposed to being random, it can be assigned a value.
I don’t believe the beat was invented because anyone thought it was a cool idea. According to Questlove, it was developed as a way to mimic certain cut together loops that were not quantized. In other words it was a reaction to an error.
And it has only perpetuated because people still request a style similar to ______.
My best attempt to explain this style—which, by the way, I see no musical value in. It’s a novelty—is to count your tempo, but slow down every one and three, so that every two and four is delayed.
EDIT: Therefore, if it’s to be notated, it would be done with alternating ritards and tempo primos, not extended note values.
And it has only perpetuated because people still request a style similar to ______.
My best attempt to explain this style—which, by the way, I see no musical value in. It’s a novelty—is to count your tempo, but slow down every one and three, so that every two and four is delayed.
EDIT: Therefore, if it’s to be notated, it would be done with alternating ritards and tempo primos, not extended note values.
Why no musical value? It's a way of playing music like any other, and it has perpetuated because people like playing it and like hearing it.
I play neo-soul, and within that genre, I can assure you that it has enormous musical value.
Imagine the snare drum drops down six inches and the drummer doesn't notice. He keeps playing normally but each note is delayed the amount of time it takes for the sticks to travel those extra six inches to the drum. Subtle, but you can get the feeling from it.
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Technically true.
But in a practical sense, it's not very simple. The typical subdivision system works with a base of 2, meaning that you end up with halves, quarters, eighths, sixteenths, thirtyseconds, sixtyfourths, etc. With infinite subdivisions it's technically possible to notate a composite numeric value, but it isn't really practical. If the base of your subdivision isn't a prime factor of the actual value you're attempting to reach, you can't notate it without an infinite series. (For instance, you can't notate 2/3 by only using fractional powers of two (1/2, 1/4, 1/8, 1/16, etc) without an infinite series. Another option for these cases is to use a different base, but mixing bases in western notation is problematic. You could use n-tuplets for this, but this can also be complex.
While western music notation does have a lot of functionality, there are a lot of things it can't do well. Time division outside of western theory generally falls into this category, as well as certain rhythmic nuances. (These shortcomings are usually addressed via performance marks, tempo changes, or in the worse case scenario, liner notes. Consider swung eighths - standard notation doesn't really allow for this at all. Spanish music suffers the same information truncation, as well as some waltz forms which are more common in classical music.) Note that in these cases, the rhythmic "aberration" changes with the tempo - it's not necessarily a consistent subdivision value, something else that western notation can't encode. I would advise against using western standard notation as a single-solution tool to all kinds of music.
If I had to explain it to a classical musician, I might try to explain it in terms of ostinato and rubato, but I feel that might lead to some misunderstandings and a loss of the essential pulse. I might actually attempt to use dance to explain the concept, but even with liberal use of tuplets I don't think I'd be able to effectively use western notation to convey the concept.
Sorry - just my thoughts. Good luck.
With clear instructions, often in English, in a symbol reference at the start of the chart. Then, when the musician sees the symbol, they can read exactly what to do in clear language and/or mathematics.
That's how all "new music" in the "classical" world provides exact instructions to performers through only written music.
Ok, I will play along with the argument you can't use traditional notation to show the lazy beat.
So, break out your DAW and tell me the time coordinates of the lazy beats in a 4/4 measure.
Assume 60 bpm, and in a perfect world,
T1 = 1 Second = beat one
T2 = 2 Seconds = beat two
T3 = 3 seconds = beat three
T4 = 4 Seconds = beat four
T5 = 5 seconds = beat one of second measure.
What are the time coordinates for T1,T2,T3, and T4 in a "lazy" world?
So, break out your DAW and tell me the time coordinates of the lazy beats in a 4/4 measure.
Assume 60 bpm, and in a perfect world,
T1 = 1 Second = beat one
T2 = 2 Seconds = beat two
T3 = 3 seconds = beat three
T4 = 4 Seconds = beat four
T5 = 5 seconds = beat one of second measure.
What are the time coordinates for T1,T2,T3, and T4 in a "lazy" world?
THANK YOU!
That video had all the info and data I was looking for plus the scholarly references.
Case closed for me.
Yes, it's EXTREMELY impractical.
Here is a very short example of my attempt to "lick" a simple bass pattern the way it was played on the track.
I don't remember what's the name of the track.
And here is that short soundclip. It does not sound terrible.
https://www.talkbass.com/attachments/temp-mp3.3851162/?temp_hash=d391fbd88d8691ee492168a502799831
Sorry probably not on topic, but when I hear lazy beat I think tempo rubato (stolen time).
Ok, just an excuse to post Chopin...
Ok, just an excuse to post Chopin...
Many decades ago, I was also interested in the same subject, and I found a "locally-published" book about
Rhythmic nuances in Jazz. Long story short, one would start working on displacing the 8th note,
displacing the 16th note,
displacing the 32nd note,
and finally, displacing the 64th note.
There is no official notation for that kind of swinging behind the beat, but
the book provided some amateurish "exceptions" by adding "arrow" signs, as in the following example.
A written notation.
And the same performed live.
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I doubt that the OP had Chopin in mind.
It's more like, "HIP HOP" Beats.
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"If you’ve worked with any DAW for any length of time, you’ll probably note that the grid is very important not only for arrangement but also for timing. Notes or beats that stray too far from the rigid grid lines are off-beat creating either a lazy feel or rushed notes that don’t seem to belong."
The reason why you can't notate it is NOT that you can't, it's that it would be insanely never ending due to the constantly changing feel of the music throughout the performance.
The "feel" subtly changes depending on ( a ) the context, ( b ) the taste of the performers, ( b ) the particular group around you and how they do it, and how it feels best.
You have to adapt, relative to how you are currently playing, and relative to how the rest of the musicians are currently playing, by adding more or less delay and, conversely, push, on certain parts of the rhythm versus other parts of the rhythm.
Slow tempo has a much more dramatic delay, Fast tempot is much more subtle... as the video above notes also. Good video, by the way.. thanks for posting that LaFaro
The "feel" subtly changes depending on ( a ) the context, ( b ) the taste of the performers, ( b ) the particular group around you and how they do it, and how it feels best.
You have to adapt, relative to how you are currently playing, and relative to how the rest of the musicians are currently playing, by adding more or less delay and, conversely, push, on certain parts of the rhythm versus other parts of the rhythm.
Slow tempo has a much more dramatic delay, Fast tempot is much more subtle... as the video above notes also. Good video, by the way.. thanks for posting that LaFaro
