EZ Drummer \ Superior Drummer (or other Toontrack apps) Discussion Thread

[socialleper]

Regarding OP's self proclaimed clumsiness, I feel ya. I use Logic Pro and there is a built in "fix my crappy timing" button-majig. Perhaps your DAW also has such a feature? Worth checking out if you're writing your own midi.

Keeping the time is certainly part of it, but there is more to drumming than just keeping time. Whether it would be with a real kit, an e-kit, or using a MIDI controller, just wrapping my head around a really expressive beat isn't something I can do. I can hear a recording and appreciate it, but trying to realize something with so many nuances takes more experience than I have. As a bass player, physically being able to throw a sudden tapping technique or slap technique in somewhere takes a high level of competence. Having the imagination to think of takes real mastery.

 

[basscapes]

I bought SD2 just before SD3 was announced. Got a great price on 2, and it has served me well in terms of writing and recording.

I wonder IF I really need to upgrade to 3 though. 2 seems to give me everything I need/want in a "drummer (at least to this point in my life!).

Learning curve, while a bit steep, became very intuitive using it in Reaper.

 

[Mannyinnewyork]

I do a lot of home recording and drums are always the biggest stumbling block for me. I use cakewalk sonar and it comes with session drummer and their own version studio instruments. They all seem to behave in a similar way ( I have Toontracks as well). In my substandard way of doing things I generally find a pattern (from those provided) and then fumble through the fills. Most recently I used a midi pattern (and session drummer ) for just the snare and bass drum and an alesis drum machine and played the cymbals and toms live. It works, but in my case my expectations are pretty low because I'm pretty lazy.

Good luck, I have heard some absolutely killer tracks that were done using EZ drummer and Session drummer.

 

[PDGood]

I have SD2 and have found it pretty easy to use. At first I hired a drummer with a midi kit to play my songs, then edited the midi as needed. This works great and you get a natural drummer's feel. Later, I bought a (standard non-midi) drum kit and learned to play it so now I program everything using a keyboard to trigger the midi. First I play the basic drum/snare pattern and maybe some crashes. The fills take the longest time to build and those are constructed mostly by hand moving midi notes around. Sometimes I can find midi patterns to use in SD2, but most things need a little editing at least. It's very time consuming but sounds great and I don't have to pay a drummer with a midi kit any more.

I've been wondering about SD3 as others have said. I don't think it has features I need, but I do think I'll get it just to keep current. They are not going to support SD2 after the first of the year.

The only problem I have with SD2 is that it's hard to add something simple like reverb to a snare. I'm hoping SD3 makes that easier.

 

[socialleper]

@Mannyinnewyork @PDGood Do you guys write your riffs and then put the drums to it, or come up with a beat and use that to inspire your playing?

 

[Mannyinnewyork]

@Mannyinnewyork @PDGood Do you guys write your riffs and then put the drums to it, or come up with a beat and use that to inspire your playing?

I seem to write just using an acoustic guitar. Then I Layout the structure of the song. Then record a very simple track with a looped drum pattern (which I eventually replace with slightly more appropriate drum tracks). After that , I start deciding what instruments to use and what kind of accenting to do. Often the drums cannot fully compliment the accents because I suck as a programmer. I'm not making marketable tracks so it's not an issue. I'm just pretty much doing an "it's ok for an amateur " recording.

Other responses will surely be more helpful.

 

[AngelCrusher]

I use Ableton as my DAW since Live 9 came with my Focusrite interface. It took me a while to figure out its two stage interface. I just learned how to break up the tracks in the mixer of EZD into individual tracks in Ableton. That allows me to mix process each one on its own. That gives me back some of the functionality that EZD doesn't have but SD does.

I could talk to you all day about programming drums as i learned from some really successful producers on how to do it and started 15 years ago.

Heres a tip though- find songs you like and just copy the kick snare and tom patterns. And do it with mega detail so you catch everything. That will help you learn a lot.

Then use preprogrammed midi for hat patterns. Saves a ton of time.

In Ableton use the velocity plugin to randomize the velocity and make it more human. Also study how to use groove templates. Those 2 in combination are extremely effective.

 

[PDGood]

@Mannyinnewyork @PDGood Do you guys write your riffs and then put the drums to it, or come up with a beat and use that to inspire your playing?

For me, writing is a separate process. When I'm finished writing I decide how it should be produced and begin on a recording. I usually write on keys or guitar. Very rarely, I'll hear a drum beat somewhere and an idea comes from jamming with it, but not very often.

 

[DirtDog]

Another EZ Drummer/Logic user here.

I actually started the journey years ago with FruityLoops imported into Cakewalk and then the built in GarageBand/Logic drummers. Actually, before that I was an IRL drummer but haven't had a kit in years! I play mostly stringed instruments and a bit of keys. I LOVE the EZ Drummer tap and find a beat functionality. I thought a great tutorial was Ola Englund's - he made it look so easy! Use your midi keys to tap a beat and let the software find you a close match. Song builder function is quite intuitive as well.

One of the drawbacks of using EZ Drummer, for me, is that everything I record is METAL with big thunderous drums! LOL! Since what I really want to write stripped down Americana, I may rent a set of e-drums this winter and futz around laying down my own drum tracks through EZ drummer. Obviously I'll need to buy the roots drum expansion pack(s).

 

[socialleper]

@DirtDog @PDGood @Mannyinnewyork @silky smoove @gustobassman
What expansion packs or MIDI packs do you have, and which do you find yourself using the most?

 

[silky smoove]

@DirtDog @PDGood @Mannyinnewyork @silky smoove @gustobassman
What expansion packs or MIDI packs do you have, and which do you find yourself using the most?

I absolutely LOVE the Nate Smith Loop Loft stuff.
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[socialleper]

I absolutely LOVE the Nate Smith Loop Loft stuff.
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What about as far as Toontrack's offerings?

 

[silky smoove]

What about as far as Toontrack's offerings?

I've never bought any Toontrack MIDI. There are companies out there that do nothing but MIDI, and since there's nothing proprietary about it there's no reason to stick with one company.

As for expansions; I wanted some heavier drum samples for an album I was doing with SD2.0 at one point and purchased The Rock Warehouse expansion pack. Unfortunately I was really unsatisfied with the samples and just used the stock Avatar kit.

 

[Deleted member 268085]

I've never bought any Toontrack MIDI. There are companies out there that do nothing but MIDI, and since there's nothing proprietary about it there's no reason to stick with one company.

As for expansions; I wanted some heavier drum samples for an album I was doing with SD2.0 at one point and purchased The Rock Warehouse expansion pack. Unfortunately I was really unsatisfied with the samples and just used the stock Avatar kit.

There may be nothing proprietary about MIDI, but there are lots of drum maps other than GM (General MIDI).

 

[socialleper]

I've never bought any Toontrack MIDI. There are companies out there that do nothing but MIDI, and since there's nothing proprietary about it there's no reason to stick with one company.

As for expansions; I wanted some heavier drum samples for an album I was doing with SD2.0 at one point and purchased The Rock Warehouse expansion pack. Unfortunately I was really unsatisfied with the samples and just used the stock Avatar kit.

Can you message me some of the places you are getting MIDIs from?

 

[PDGood]

@DirtDog @PDGood @Mannyinnewyork @silky smoove @gustobassman
What expansion packs or MIDI packs do you have, and which do you find yourself using the most?

My tone goal is just a very standard studio sounding kit useful in blues, pop, country etc. Off the top of my head I know I use the Black Beauty snare from the Nashville EZX Pack. It's the first one on their list, I believe a 5x14". That's a great snare sound and I like it better than other Black Beauties in other packs.
I do like the Piccolo snare on the default Avatar library.
I bought one for big drum sounds - I think it's called Rock EZ and it works well for that.
I use crashes from a variety of packs.
Have never found a ride I was happy with. On a ride, the first hit should continue to sustain and subsequent hits should overlap that and overlap each other. These samples sound to me like you're re-triggering with each hit. (Maybe I'm wrong, but that's what it sounds like to me). As a solution, I tend to use two rides and alternate hits so when the second one pings it overlaps the first one. Still looking for the perfect pair to do this with.

 

[gustobassman]

@DirtDog @PDGood @Mannyinnewyork @silky smoove @gustobassman
What expansion packs or MIDI packs do you have, and which do you find yourself using the most?

Just a small assortment. I like the stock drums. They sound great. For EZX I have the Reggae and Dream Pop. For Midi packs I have Reggae, Disco Grooves and Session Drums 1. Dream Pop has some glorious sounds but its a real CPU hog.

I do a lot of rock and reggae/dub. I like to take the grooves in EZD and kind of make my own. If i like a part of a fill and part of another, i'll chop it up and put them together. Add the hats from one groove or bring the toms from different one to create a new one. Stuff like that.

 

[silky smoove]

There may be nothing proprietary about MIDI, but there are lots of drum maps other than GM (General MIDI).

Indeed, but in SD you can easily customize a map to reflect the MIDI if need be. You can get some interesting results by intentionally mismapping something (i.e. turn a ride cymbal bow into a floor tom to change the feel of a beat).

Can you message me some of the places you are getting MIDIs from?

I used to use Twiddly Bits, but have gotten more from Loop Loft recently. These days, being a drummer, I don't bother with purchasing MIDI very frequently. I usually just perform or program what I need myself.

Here's some stuff that I triggered live from SD2.0 using a Roland TD-25KV:
(6-song playlist)



Here's some stuff that was live triggered by another drummer on an Alesis kit (Alesis I/O acting as the brain) and then cleaned-up and supplementally programmed by me using SD2.0.


All of those examples use the stock SD2.0 Avatar kit.

 

[Bryan R. Tyler]

I just got back home from cutting a bass track for a client at my friends's studio, and he used Superior Drummer for the drums. They sounded great- nothing clinical or "sample-y" about them.

 

[socialleper]

I just got back home from cutting a bass track for a client at my friends's studio, and he used Superior Drummer for the drums. They sounded great- nothing clinical or "sample-y" about them.

There definitely seems to be a slant towards SD over EZD.