Double Bass Facing a crossroads and could use some advice

[bherman]

Hi all - long time TB member on both the DB and EB side. I'm facing a crossroads decision, really not sure where best to post this so landed on Miscellaneous. If Mods have a better suggestion, I'm all ears. I really don't see a category in the DB forums where this neatly fits. It's kinda a cross-post between DB and EB Forums.

For the past few months, I've been dealing with significant pain in my left index finger, making it difficult to play DB without limiting what I can do. I finally saw a hand specialist and after xrays and consultation, he's determined that its arthritis in my knuckle joint. He tried a cortisone (steroid) injection into my knuckle, and while it eased the pain somewhat while playing, it still hurts quite a bit after a session, even after just playing for 30 minutes or so. I'm 69 yrs old, according to my Doc, its not uncommon at this age, and unfortunately there isnt much they can do to treat arthritis. He said that he can give periodic injections, but unlike knees and other parts of the body where joint replacements are a viable option, that's not the case for knuckles. He said that there are some surgical approaches, but they are complicated and have a less than 50% success rate.

I've tried all kinds of other solutions - very light gauge strings, downtuned solos, etc but my sense is that my DB playing days may be over. So I'm trying to decide how to proceed moving forward. I'm playing in two bands regularly now, one is all electric bass and the other was about 50/50 DB and EB (think Wood Bros, Americana, etc). One option is to look for a fretless electric, like a Rob Allen or similar, and "mimic" DB as best as I can. I used to own a Rob Allen and unfortunately sold it years ago since there was no need for it when I could play DB (or at times, an Eminence EUB). The other option is just to fall back to fretted EB only, and make do.

I'm coming to grips with the fact that the physical demands of DB may be enough of a limitation that my DB playing days are over. I'd really appreciate thoughts and perspectives on this from others, maybe there's something that I'm not considering???

 

[nonohmic]

Buy a Rob Allen mouse and enjoy many more years of great tone and a 5.5 lb bass that fits in a guitar bag.

I'm sorry btw, I have knuckle inflammation from climbing that isn't arthritic but it's chronic. I feel your pain. But yeah as much as a DB is amazing, a long career on a more manageable instrument is equally as good.

 

[bherman]

Buy a Rob Allen mouse and enjoy many more years of great tone and a 5.5 lb bass that fits in a guitar bag.

I'm sorry btw, I have knuckle inflammation from climbing that isn't arthritic but it's chronic. I feel your pain. But yeah as much as a DB is amazing, a long career on a more manageable instrument is equally as good.

thanks, I appreciate the advice. I've not played a Mouse and uncertain about adapting to the short scale, have you had that experience?

 

[nonohmic]

thanks, I appreciate the advice. I've not played a Mouse and uncertain about adapting to the short scale, have you had that experience?

I'm sorry I haven't used one, only heard them. But like anything it might take a few months to get used to it and then you'll be flying again. I recently switched from 34" to 32" scale and have never felt more relaxed.

 

[Nev375]

Fretless or fretted EB are both excellent tools of expression.

Instruments don't make music, people do. Play whatever best agrees with your hands.

 

[Polfuste]

Perhaps a Marcustico ?

 

[bherman]

Perhaps a Marcustico ?

Wild looking bass - never heard of them. Will check it out!

 

[Polfuste]

You'll find a lot of vids on youtube. Never try it yet, but best DB inspired sound i've never heard.

 

[Ed S]

From one arthritis sufferer to another (tho mostly from my hips on down) how bad is the pain? My big issue with joint pain is not knowing if what I'm doing is going to make it worse. And with arthritis, that isn't really the case. To the contrary, they generally recommend that you use the joint. So I'm just wondering if you could gut it out with aspirin during and ice after. Or, I know some people who swear by voltaren - tho it doesn't do much for me.

 

[bherman]

From one arthritis sufferer to another (tho mostly from my hips on down) how bad is the pain? My big issue with joint pain is not knowing if what I'm doing is going to make it worse. And with arthritis, that isn't really the case. To the contrary, they generally recommend that you use the joint. So I'm just wondering if you could gut it out with aspirin during and ice after. Or, I know some people who swear by voltaren - tho it doesn't do much for me.

thx, its pretty bad, though it has its ups and downs. Its exacerbated by the location of the arthritis, in my left indext finger knuckle. I'm left handed so that finger gets used probably more than any other, so all day long its in motion. A combination of ibuprofen (800 mg) and tylenol helps, but I really don't want to have to rely on that y to get through a gig, let alone practice. The clincher was the other day, my finger felt pretty good, but after playing for 30 minutes, my finger was aching. So I might be able to get through gigs, but if I am limited in practice time its pretty tough moving forward.

 

[Ed S]

But you don't play bass lefty, do you? I forget - what kind of music do you play? I probably ought not say it around here, but a lot of guys acquit themselves pretty well with various lefthand claw approaches. (Tho I admit, those often tend to rely on the index finger.)

They can repeat those shots. Tho, i the first one doesn't work, my impression is that subsequent ones are not likely to be amazing.

There are plenty of painkillers out there. I tend to avoid them, mainly because I have a stupid high pain threshold, and I want to hold off as long as I can (I'm 6 years younger than you.) But experiment with what is out there and research the side effects.

Good luck!

 

[bherman]

But you don't play bass lefty, do you? I forget - what kind of music do you play? I probably ought not say it around here, but a lot of guys acquit themselves pretty well with various lefthand claw approaches. (Tho I admit, those often tend to rely on the index finger.)

They can repeat those shots. Tho, i the first one doesn't work, my impression is that subsequent ones are not likely to be amazing.

There are plenty of painkillers out there. I tend to avoid them, mainly because I have a stupid high pain threshold, and I want to hold off as long as I can (I'm 6 years younger than you.) But experiment with what is out there and research the side effects.

Good luck!

Thx, I don't play lefty so its my fretting hand - would probably be easier to deal with if it was my right hand that was impacted. The doc says that they can only use the shots a limited # of times - apparently excessive use of steroids can damage tendons, especially when combined with exercise (which playing kinda is). I play a variety of music, including some small - combo jazz and Americana ala Chris Woods/Wood Brothers. Definitely not easy thumping stuff.

 

[ryco]

I wonder if a medical CBD cream or oil might help.
My 87 year old Mom has been suffering with knee pain for years. She had one replaced with great success, but isn't going to replace the other. She has been having a hard time with the "normal" knee, but a couple of weeks ago after being diagnosed with arthritis in the knee, her Doc recommended she try CBD cream. She was reluctant but finally decided to try it and she is elated! She says it brings about 8 hours of total relief, so she is able to walk around the neighborhood and go shopping again pain free.
Just a suggestion you may want to research and explore.

 

[BobKay]

Ben, my suggestion is to make whatever accommodations best suit your musical interests and don’t look back. I think you’ve seen my posts regarding having to switch to an EUB because arthritis in my foot makes it too dangerous for me to try and move my acoustic bass around. One of my long time gigs was a roots/bluegrass/Americana group that really appreciated my traditional upright. But they understood and worked with me to get a sound as close as I can with my SLB.

Just to underscore my decision to “moving on,” I recently worked with the principal of a local symphony to find a young student who could benefit from having their own bass. I gave her my Upton hybrid, my only remaining acoustic bass. It was time.

 

[BassinCT]

The ideas presented so far are great! Keep talking about it and write about it here.

Advice given to me about several things including retirement from teaching, playing, home ownership, etc.: plan for the next phase now. Imagine what it will look like, and start taking steps toward it so you don’t have to stop on a dime and you have no choice.

My former DB teacher had to have surgery to remove a brain tumor in the late 1980’s. At the time, he was principal bass for NC Symphony. As he told me: he knew that there was a good chance that he could lose motor function in his hand(s).The first thing he did when he awakened after surgery was to wiggle his fingers. It dawned on him that it was time to change his work balance to focus on teaching. He was still able to play, but he started down a new, rewarding path.

Different story with Dame Julie Andrews: she lost her singing voice completely following a surgery. It was devastating, but she found her way into writing, theater direction, narration, with the support of family.
I have occasional flare ups in my proximal (middle) joint in my left hand when I play -primarily the index finger. Mine is likely deteriorated cartilage within the joint. Glucosamine supplements have been helping some, but it is time for me to figure out how to manage this until I make a transition with my doubling to primarily electric.

I hope you find a rewarding path! The Rob Allen fretless idea has my attention

 

[KenD]

Chronology catches up to all of us in one way or another. I wish you the best.

If it were me in your situation I would use my fretless in place of the DB. With a bit of EQ tweaking and using a good compressor/limiter with variable knee and attack I can do a passable job of "suggesting" a DB sound. Nothing can imitate that sound IMO.

 

[KenD]

thanks, I appreciate the advice. I've not played a Mouse and uncertain about adapting to the short scale, have you had that experience?

I think Allen also makes a 34" scale and Martin Keith makes a lovely fretless to any scale you want (I have one).

 

[jeffb28451]

I'm 68 and having similar issues with my right hand and shoulder and made the decision to get rid of my beautiful fEarless and Audio Kinesis. cabs These were dream cabs and are amazing. They're not heavy for what they do, but I went all carbon fiber yesterday with GR cabinets . Micro heads are thick on the ground and a Toney Franklin Fender does a pretty good emulation of a DB, if your choice is like mine: do it or stop playing. I've been struggling with load in/out for last several months and always worried about permanent injury

I am not happy with narrowing and "downgrading" my gear, but I am glad to be playing at all. These decisions had to be made and actions taken,,,...sort of a half a loaf, better than none deal, you know.

Good luck with your health and continued playing.

 

[ac100X]

My dog Bailey developed a limp in his rear leg. My daughter worked for a veterinarian. The vet gave all the dogs with joint problems Glucosamine & Chondroitin so we tried it on Bailey and soon he was walking on his leg. I had a pain when using my little finger, I couldn't use it while playing bass. I tried it an after about a month it went away back to normal. I have seen my doctor and there is nothing risky about taking Glucosamine & Chondroitin. I take two pills a day and it have been years. It is worth a try but ask your doctor.

 

[etherealme]

My sincerest condolences. Pain can be debilitating as well as emotional. Might I suggest an anti-inflammatory diet? My wife suffers from lots of joint pain but she is doing wonders better by cutting out wheat, gluten, dairy, cured meats, nightshades and other grains. I know this sounds nightmarish but if it's that or facing quitting something you love, sacrifices might be in order?