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Double Bass "Fair" condition

#21
Matthew Tucker said:
And the funny thing about ebay, is that it shows not how silly people are, but how much something is really worth to some people.
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I certainly couldn't agree with that - it shows how silly people can be when they get "bidding frenzy" or think they have sniffed that most elusive of quantities - a "Bargain" !! :rolleyes:

There's no doubt people pay more on eBay because of the psychology of it - several serious studies have been written about this!
 
#22
DrBassie said:
Hey Ken,

What kind of car do you drive? You can get around in a Ford, Nissan or Toyota, but you're not REALLY driving until you're behind the wheel of a Ferrari or a Lamborghini. Sure, the Nissan will get you where you want to go, but why do that when you can get there faster in a Lotus or a Rolls Royce more comfortably.

Now that being said, I don't see the point in picking up a useless laminate bass and fixing it up, just like I wouldn't see the point in fully restoring a '87 Ford Escort. If someone gets the notion to do that, despite everyone telling him otherwise, I hope he thinks it was worth it in the end. I know I wouldn't count on it.
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But I think you have got this wrong - nobody is against fixing up a solid, dependable product in reasonable shape...

But I have yet to see the car forum that suggests anything other than the scrap heap for accident-damaged Ladas, Skodas, etc. ;)
 
#23
Bruce Lindfield said:
I certainly couldn't agree with that - it shows how silly people can be when they get "bidding frenzy" or think they have sniffed that most elusive of quantities - a "Bargain" !! :rolleyes:

There's no doubt people pay more on eBay because of the psychology of it - several serious studies have been written about this!
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Well it cuts both ways. Some people end up with bargains on ebay, too. :hmm:

And one man's junk is another man's treasure. Who's to say the bidder isn't bidding on a wrecked bass to stick a lamp inside and decorate a shop wall or something?
 
#24
Matthew Tucker said:
Well it cuts both ways. Some people end up with bargains on ebay, too. :hmm:

And one man's junk is another man's treasure. Who's to say the bidder isn't bidding on a wrecked bass to stick a lamp inside and decorate a shop wall or something?
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I'm sure there is the odd bargain - but generally this kind of feeding frenzy pushes prices up on an auction, in the vast majority of cases.

People are just looking for "something for nothing" and will then convince themselves that that's what they got!! ;)

If people are buying furniture - then I'm sure there is scrap wood for sale at much lower prices!!
 
#25
Bruce Lindfield said:
But I think you have got this wrong - nobody is against fixing up a solid, dependable product in reasonable shape...

But I have yet to see the car forum that suggests anything other than the scrap heap for accident-damaged Ladas, Skodas, etc. ;)
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No, I agree with you fully! Like I said, I don't see the point at all. Most of my post had to do with what "bores" Ken on the TB forums.

I was talking about how he's frustrated that nobody posts when he talks about his 19th century basses. I'm sure people find his information interesting (I know I do), but what's the percentage of people here that can add to the conversation? How many people on the forum have one of those basses? People will contribute with their own experiences.
 
#26
Well I don't want to give the usual suspects the last word on the subject, so here are my final thoughts:

To all who disparaged the bass, would you prefer to put it in a dumpster (even the ebony fingerboard??!!), and spend new money on
newly harvested wood resources?! BTW, I was offered $1500 for the Kay that I paid $300 for and repaired. I'm not selling, because it sounds too nice and is set up beautifully. If some Tbers aren't impressed with this, is it because the profit margin isn't adequate? What I care about is that a non-functioning bass has become useable again.

When did German ply basses become comparable to Skodas? The Skoda equivalent, surely, is a Crappy-Asian-Bass, aka a Bass-Shaped-Object. I think a reasonable comparison for a German ply is, as someone already suggested, a Ford Escort (inexpensive, reliable, low maintenance). I drove one for years (an Escort, not a German ply).

DRURB, what negative effects on playability and sound do you anticipate from scratching a name and/or number into the surface? Also, when you say the scroll is "a mess", what specifically do you mean? Cosmetically (this can easily be touched up) or functionally?

Another TBer commented that TB is for people who play, rather than fix basses. I try to do both, although I mostly use my time for playing. Perhaps the thread was meandering from "ha, look at this bass" to "is this bass worth fixing?", which might have been better accomodated on the Set Up and Repair forum (IMO, one of the best sections of TB).

Lastly, perhaps we do need to differentiate the discussion groups, e.g., into ply vs. carved, or basses under 5k, under 10k, etc... I don't really believe this is a solution - perhaps, as M. Tucker suggested, people could refrain from commenting if they're not really interested in the subject...

Rant over.

Paul
 
#28
KSB - Ken Smith said:
On not having the money that's just fine. I am surprised thought that so few people are interested even in discussing these great basses. The Ruggeri pictured in the Elgar book sold recently at just under 400k. But don't discuss it unless you have 400k to spend, right?
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Ken, I used to drool over: Fine wine, cuban cigars, 1st pressings of classic Jazz or RCA Living Stereo on vinyl, old tube stereo gear, Gustav Stickley antiques, 60's Jazz basses, old Volvo P1800's, etc, etc. I eventually found that none of this stuff could make me happy.

If collecting and drooling over basses that cost as much as a house makes you happy, go for it, but I don't want to play.
I, and probably 99+% of TBers wouldn't spend $400K on a bass if we had several million bucks. For most of us, basses are tools, period. I doubt a $400K bass would improve my chances of making a living playing Jazz. It might inflate my ego just a tad, if having people fawn over my posessions mattered to me. Most people don't give a crap.

I sure wouldn't pay $500 for a broken plywood bass. That's one thing we agree on.

Go right ahead collecting and restoring rare basses and I'll go practice my plywood bass.
 
#30
bassist14 said:
clink said:
I, and probably 99+% of TBers wouldn't spend $400K on a bass if we had several million bucks. For most of us, basses are tools, period. /quote]

ok: 59,636 members. 1% is 596,36, and i am one of them. it´s more than a tool!
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Not sure about the math, but I get your point. While I can sometimes appreciate the beauty of expensive basses, just doesn't appeal to me. That doesn't mean you or Ken or whoever shouldn't go there.

I just finished reading the Ron Carter interview in Double Bassist magazine. He's playing the 1910 Juzek because it works for him and helps him make the kind of music he wants to make. Would he sound better on a $400k bass? I doubt it. Charlie Parker played a crappy horn. He wasn't a sax collector, but the best alto player on the planet. He was a musician first.

Now if my goal was to lead the Bass section in a major orchestra, I might consider mortgaging my house for a bass, but I play Jazz. My sense of value is different.

As I advance with the DB I will possibly outgrow my soon to be delivered Hawkes, but any instrument I own will be chosen solely on its ability to help me make music. Does appearance matter? Sure, but not if it costs me more money. If I showed up tomorrow night at my Jazz gig with an old Italian bass, I'd still play out of tune in thumb position and the leader would still call tunes I don't know.

Basses are tools. If they make you play better or feel better playing them, enjoy. I can't afford museum pieces and wouldn't buy them if I could.:cool:
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#33
eh_train said:
DRURB, what negative effects on playability and sound do you anticipate from scratching a name and/or number into the surface? Also, when you say the scroll is "a mess", what specifically do you mean? Cosmetically (this can easily be touched up) or functionally?
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Well, one thing I do agree with Ken about is that it is amazing this has gone past a few amusing posts. I do not expect any negative effects on playability and sound from scratches. The scroll is a cosmetic mess. I stated clearly in my post that these could be rehabilitated. I also stated that all of these considerations did not bode well for the condition of the bass. That is, in terms of what we can't see.

Look, if you have the skill to fix it yourself, more power to you. I still think that even then the price of $300-$500 is too much for this broken plywood bass. Most of the folks here cannot fix it themselves. The cost of taking that bass to a luthier and have it repaired, plus the purchase price, plus the shipping would easilty exceed the price of a brand new, well set up, quality laminate bass. It just makes no sense.
 
#34
Yes - that was my point as well - so OK - one person here might be able to fix up a bass - but it makes no sense for the vast majority of people - it's a question of not just thinking about yourself in such a narrow fashion but rather what is helpful to most people.

I'm very glad that Ken ,Drurb and others such people here to do that and are not just thinking as narrowly as "eh_train" (sic) :)
 
#35
Bruce Lindfield said:
it's a question of not just thinking about yourself in such a narrow fashion but rather what is helpful to most people.

I'm very glad that Ken ,Drurb and others such people here to do that and are not just thinking as narrowly as "eh_train" (sic) :)
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Sheesh you guys, you're really trying to wind people up aren't you? someone else has ventured an opinion and everyone jumps on him.

Reading back, I realise that the bass wreck was posted here just for a few broad-minded folks to laugh out loud at the poor buggers who bid on it, but not for anyone else to venture an opinion or comment.

You're probably right ... surely 99% of the talkbass users here come because of the kind service you guys provide to steer newbies them away from the bad buys?

But me and eh-train aren't amongst them.

That poor old busted bass couldn't have generated more heat if you took a match to it ... :hiding:
 
#38
billyfalconer said:
"Charlie Parker played a crappy horn."

Uh uh. Bad generalization. Sometimes he played "a crappy horn," sometimes he played good horns (which he would frequently hock).
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Yeah a lot of those guys were junkies - but I don't think anybody would be advising that, as a way of life...:hmm:
 
#39
At the famed Massey Hall concert, Parker played a plastic horn that he got at a pawn shop just before the show. He never returned it and it is now in the Jazz Museum here in Kansas City.

I heard that in his early days a bandleader gave Parker his personal sax because he hated to see Parker play bad horns. Parker hocked the good horn, got high and showed up the next night with his old horn.
 
#40
clink said:
At the famed Massey Hall concert, Parker played a plastic horn that he got at a pawn shop just before the show. He never returned it and it is now in the Jazz Museum here in Kansas City.
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The jazz museum, which was built with KC taxpayer's money, paid $140,000 for that plastic horn. I hate to think how much they would have been willing to pay for his Conn 6M.
 

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