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Fakes?

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#21
poor mans alternative, i dont really see the problem morally, 'imitation is the sincerest form of flattery' . As long as the auction clearly says "****** style bass body" then its not a kick in the arse off the business policy of many, many other bass manufacturers.
Build Quality, selling practises and warranty e.t.c is another matter!
Ken, i think he's a long way away from usurping your niche of the market!
 
#25
I think the biggest thing to consider is that it is not yet a playable instrument. I think someone with basic wood working knowledge can make one of these, but it takes a skilled luthier to make a playable instrument. Why dont any of these basses haves srtings, bridges, pick ups... you know, the neccesities.

Or maybe we should all pitch in for one and send it to one of the luthiers here onTB to see if they can make it work.

Just Kidding, kinda.:smug:
 
#26
dragonbass said:
Guys,

Do yourselves a favor and listen to Ken.
Stay away from this guy....

He use to go under the ID of luthierextreme on E-bay.

I to thought it was a fair price for some of the exotic woods he was selling, but let me tell you....
I ended up buying a "rare 1 piece Brazilian Mahogany" Jazz body from this guy...And while the body was indeed that..His routing jobs are horrible! It looks like a 2 yr. old did it.
Let's just say it was done by a very unsteady hand.

As for his "somewhat" finished basses..I heard nothing but bad things about them. Seems all there necks are twisted.

OH..and for shipping...I received the body in a very thin "cardboard" box, body wrapped in a clear plastic bag, completely wet.

You truely get what you pay for.....if it seems to good to be true ...IT IS!

Rob
Click to expand...

I have seen this guy's work.

I believe this guy has had several other ebay id's before. It is easy to tell from the wording of the ads etc. He started off a couple of years ago only selling bodies and didn't to pretend that they were something other than his own but he seems to be moving up market and trying to rip off people's names which stinks.

I agree with Rob WRT the quality. I have seen a number of his guitar bodies. Some of the routing was OK but some was really horrible. Yeah you can cover some ills with a pick guard or a trem cover 8(... and heck the undersized neck routs let you use a cheapo import neck or open them up for a standard Fender guitar neck, Oh but wait the numbers he advertised were the Fender dimensions. And what do you do if things ar not square or flat where they need to be.

I would say that of the product of his that I have seen between 1/3 and 2/3 was useable, the packing was terrible allowing shipping damage, and the wood of some bodies was greener than my lawn. I saw one body develop cracks - IMO it needed at least a year of slow drying before it should have been used. It was probably a tree one or two weeks before it hit ebay. Sad because it was a nice piece of wood.

Some of the bodies might be good if you could cherry pick the best but you don't get that chance - totally hit or miss and I would never trust a neck from this guy to stay straight over time.

Think about these things:

1. Spotty quality
2. Wood that may not be aged at all
3. No chance for recourse
4. Walking the edge of ripping off other people's good names
5. Wastage of rare woods that deserve to be prepared and used to make quality items

I would place a bet that at least some of his woods were cut illegally, though he is certainly not the only producer using woods that may come from illegal sources - there is usually no way to know unless you are there when they cut the tree.

YMMV but I have held several of his guitar bodies in my own hands and I have measured them. I would say that even those simple bare bodies were totally hit or miss. His ads made it sound like everything will just line up, drop in and bolt on without much work and that surely was not always the case.

Peace,
S
 
#27
The first ad I posted says it IS a Ken Smith Bass and not a Smith style Bass. That the main problem. That makes it a 100% fake/counterfeit.

The second problem is that Ebay has a ''Keyword Spamming' rule. This means you cannot use another brand name in the 'Title' of the ad to attract people looking for the real brand mentioned. You can put in the ad copy that it is a xxxx style Bass but not in the Title.

Imagine answering an ad for a Mercedes Benz for 6k. You drive 100 miles only to find out it's a Ford T-bird MB style/looking car and not a real Merc.

This guy is a real Ass and I have had several emails from him defending his reasoning. He has also promised me NEVER to use my name again in his ads even though he continues to rip off my designs. Now, he feels he can do anything he likes including trying to tell YOU, the consumer, that he has an unfinished Smith Bass for $180. shipped from Brazil. That's the problem. Not so much my problem alone as I have had emails from people that bought from him only to find out they were ripped off.

Hey, go bid on it. Have fun.. Then don't pay him. Use the fake excuse with Ebay. Maybe he will get the message then.
 
#30
KSB - Ken Smith said:
The first ad I posted says it IS a Ken Smith Bass and not a Smith style Bass. That the main problem. That makes it a 100% fake/counterfeit.
Click to expand...

Ken, right there you have grounds to get him shut down. He has been shut down before. Ebay has closed this guy's accounts a number of times in the last two years for various reasons. That usually puts him out of business for about two or three weeks. Of course the changes of ID make it more difficult for his bad reputation to follow him closely.

I can't believe that people fall for these fakes as being anything even close to the real thing. Still, he should be prevented from ever implying that they are.

It is almost like if Wish were to ever try to claim that his bass was really a Zon Hyperbass.

Peace,
S
 
#36
KSB - Ken Smith said:
The first ad I posted says it IS a Ken Smith Bass and not a Smith style Bass. That the main problem. That makes it a 100% fake/counterfeit.

The second problem is that Ebay has a ''Keyword Spamming' rule. This means you cannot use another brand name in the 'Title' of the ad to attract people looking for the real brand mentioned. You can put in the ad copy that it is a xxxx style Bass but not in the Title.

Imagine answering an ad for a Mercedes Benz for 6k. You drive 100 miles only to find out it's a Ford T-bird MB style/looking car and not a real Merc.

This guy is a real Ass and I have had several emails from him defending his reasoning. He has also promised me NEVER to use my name again in his ads even though he continues to rip off my designs. Now, he feels he can do anything he likes including trying to tell YOU, the consumer, that he has an unfinished Smith Bass for $180. shipped from Brazil. That's the problem. Not so much my problem alone as I have had emails from people that bought from him only to find out they were ripped off.

Hey, go bid on it. Have fun.. Then don't pay him. Use the fake excuse with Ebay. Maybe he will get the message then.
Click to expand...
You're right of course. they're using your good name without permission - Tobias, Warrior, and Alembic as well. Hope you sort them out.
 
#37
bmc said:
Is Warmoth in the fake business?
Click to expand...
as said before, no, they are under contract to build bodies and necks for MANY 'luthiers'

as to this thread though, sorry to see that Ken, must be a pain in the ass for an inovator such as yourself. Any legal options for you?? or would it just waste too much time, money, and...well... time?
 
#38
MM-Stingray5 said:
is anyone ripping of the warwick thumb? cuz i would kill for a ripped of thumb bass!
Click to expand...
no, but I know that Warwick has been using the awfully close NS style from Spector for a few decades now, hey, ther eyou go, get a cheap Spector Knock-Off and buy a Streamer Stage I :eek: :eek:


:hiding:
 
#39
I don't care what you pay for his "Product" it's going to cost money to get it completed, Hardware, Electronics, Finish work, and making sure the neck is straight. Who knows what kind of trussrod he has in there if any at all, and if so, will it work proplerly? What do you think it costs to get a trussrod fixed? After it's all said and done you may or may not end up with a useable instrument. But when the time comes for you to get a real Ken Smith, or Warrior or whatever you fancy, you will get zero dollars for that knockoff, you will wind up storing it for the rest of your life... "The things in your storage own you". You wind up giving this instrument to a family member's kid who wants to learn bass, but because he has such a crappy instrument he gets frustrated and quits and chooses a life of computer networking and internet surfing for porn. I am not saying you need to spend a chunk of dough on a bass, just make sure it was made by somone and that it's a good bass. Life is too short for this kind of crapshoot.
 
#40
ok so i saw this guy and i decided to have him do some custom work... I already own a six string burner and it was stolen from me at the same times as about 6000 dollares worth of recording equipment. so being a college student and lving off loans I had to have an instrument for the upcoming semster... This is my semster at berklee college of music and this is the worst timeing. WEll i had him build me a custom 6 string no resemblence to any ones basses i dont belive in that Ken. But the body and seem work is nice it is a neck through. The routing was definltly done by hand so it is a little rough and he routed the pick ups wrong ... the fret work seems good it was not wet at all and body is very nice... The truss rods work well... howver the body is sent unfinshed and requires some sanding... I am doing a tung oil and tru oil finsh but all in all it was worth the 300 i paid. However, i must say i was unaware he was copying and ripping off people like ken smith who i have loved playing instruments built by for the last 6 years .. i just could not at this time afford the 2500 price tag...
 
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