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Fakes?

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KSB - Ken Smith said:
Ok, this guy is at it again listing all the name as he correct his ads. He has the attention span of a spec of dust!

http://cgi.ebay.com/MAGNIFIC-4-STG-...oryZ4713QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Link Removed

Now people, time to live up to your words. Go on Ebay and report every single ad he is Keyword Spamming and ripping off. This guy needs a lesson.

I have reported this guy 7 times, seems ebay will just let him keep changing his handle, and keep selling. Really pi$$es me off. Some people are completely driven by the almighty buck.
 
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Tokai did not become Fender Japan.
In Japan, most music inst. business works differently, mostly 'design' companies and 'OEM contractors'. There are several contracting factories and there are branding businesses, e.g Hoshino (brands: Ibanez etc) Fuji Gen Gakki (manufacturing factory, building Ibanez, Greco, Fender Japan), Matsumoko (building Aria, Morris,Westone....). Fender Japan is part of Fender not Tokai. Fender contracted FujiGen Gakki to build Fender japan in the 80s. There are some smaller companies that are both design and manufacture, e.g. ESP. In the 80's the only large company that manufactured and designed at the same time was Yamaha.


The lawsuits were actually raised by Gibson's owners at the time, Norlin. By which time, most of the Japanese companies had moved into their own designs. The Tokai copies, were simply not allowed for importation in several countries.

The Penguin said:
There have been many lawsuits, one company (Tokai) even settled one of their lawsuits by making real Fenders instead of knock offs. At first they just made a tiny change to the headstock but then they became Fender Japan.

Also Mr. Fender sold his rights by 1965, he could no longer easily sue after that.
 
Fender Japan instruments were made to Fender specifications by Fuji Gen Gakki in Tokyo. They were certainly not conveniently rebadged Tokai instruments, which were made in Hamamatsu. Completely different factories and different cities.

see:
http://www.daeschler.com/articles/fujigen/

for further information, you can consult Michael Wright's books. He covers the Norlin lawsuit, and the urban legend that followed it.
 
synaesthesia said:
Fender Japan instruments were made to Fender specifications by Fuji Gen Gakki in Tokyo. They were certainly not conveniently rebadged Tokai instruments, which were made in Hamamatsu. Completely different factories and different cities.

see:
http://www.daeschler.com/articles/fujigen/

for further information, you can consult Michael Wright's books. He covers the Norlin lawsuit, and the urban legend that followed it.
I saw your link, it doesn't really say much. Fender has used many suppliers, one was the same people who made Tokai. Tokai (or the people who made them) made exact Fender copies, then Fender copies with a slightly modified headstock, then copies with Fender logos. Your article mentions how Fender used to hide the origin of their instruments.

My story comes from the people who bought the 1985 NAMM floor models so they have some connections.
 
No. Fender did not use Tokai as a OEM production manufacturer in the 80s., the Tokai company went bankrupt and resurfaced later. Do your research. You made a statement earlier that Tokai were a product of fujiGen Gakki, so you obviously do not know what you are talking about.
 
synaesthesia said:
Tokai did not become Fender Japan.
In Japan, most music inst. business works differently, mostly 'design' companies and 'OEM contractors'. There are several contracting factories and there are branding businesses, e.g Hoshino (brands: Ibanez etc) Fuji Gen Gakki (manufacturing factory, building Ibanez, Greco, Fender Japan), Matsumoko (building Aria, "Morris",Westone....). Fender Japan is part of Fender not Tokai. Fender contracted FujiGen Gakki to build Fender japan in the 80s. There are some smaller companies that are both design and manufacture, e.g. ESP. In the 80's the only large company that manufactured and designed at the same time was Yamaha.

You mentin the "Morris" brand here and I think it is a mistake on your part unless there has been a major change. Toshio Moridaira started making Guitars in a small Barn size wooden building in the 1960s and named it Morris Guitars. Soon after he built his larger factory and is still existing in Nagano, Japan not far from the old site. On my trip of 1989 to Japan to start the Burner Bass project, Toshio took me over to his old building to show me where he had started as a young man. It was interesting to see that when we stopped to get Gas, a young adult or late teen came out and filled up the car, bowed and we drove off, just like that. No siginature and no cash (Yen) was paid. He had an account and they knew who he was. When we were in Tokio we visited a few shops as he showed me around personally. In one show, we walked in and he brought me over to look at some of his guitars branded 'Toronado' (bowl backed acoustics like the Ovations). A sales girl walks up and I think asked if we needed help (a 37 year old american and a 67? year old Japanese) and looked for a second at his face and WOW.. She was almost on her knees bowing and bowing and bobbing and bowing until he told her in Japanese it was ok, ok young lady.. he's just showing me/his friend around. At one 'Summer NAMM' show in Nashville we were walking out when Shiro Arai (Aria Guitars founder and president) walked up, smiled at me (we are old friends in the business) and took Moridaira's hand, leaned over and started that bowing n bobbing thing again until Toshio told him, ok, ok.. Who is this Toshio guy I thought to myself, one of my oldest friends in the business, the Japanese God Father?.. Maybe yes, maybe no..

I can tell you more as we have spent alot of time together as friends at dinner, golf and business all over the USA (Namm Shows), visits to NY, Japan and Germany at the Frankfurt show where we first met in 1980 introduced to him by Bill Lawrence as we had drinks together.

Morris was at one time the Japanese contractor (and still may be for some) for Fender, Charvel, Bill Lawrence, Ovation, Warwick, Burner (Smith) and many other brands including their own names including Morris, Toronado and Hurricane Guitars all of which I have seen with my own eyes when visiting the plant in 1989. Toshio mentioned that at one point he had 12 factories other than his making 20,000 guitars a year or month (I can't recall) or was it 20 factories making 12,000 units?.. Either way, it was alot of guitars the way he explained it and one day I will ask him again. He has retired and moved to Hawaii and has not been to a NAMM show in several years himself. It was over 10 years ago that I attended his companies' 35th anniversary party at the Marriot in Anaheim so I guess he deserves a rest. Young-Chang Piano factory in Korea was also one of his sub-contractors for Guitars branded Fender and Basses for Warwick. I believe they made the Acoustisc for Fender (Japan models) right there in the Nagano plant as he showed me stacks and stacks of Brazillian Rosewood Veneers in wooden crates piled up in one of the warehouse buildings in Nagano. In Tokyo, he had a 5 story building with basement in the Financial district. His offices for his Distribution company were headed there including 3 floors of offices, one floor or studios for musicians and a great Japanese Resturant on the ground floor. There were several white Vans in the parking lot used for deliveries to shops around Tokio. I visited one of his warehouses of which he had at least 5 all over Japan to make distribution easier. In the 1960s, he came to America speaking no English at all and thought that Japanese musicians woudl pay high dollars for American goods and became the first distributor for Gibson and Fender. Later on he aquired Mesa Boogie and paid $1,000,000. (one Million U$D) for a single shipment of product from them to show they were serious. When I gave them the Smith line to sell there his right hand man Yoichi Minagowa came to my booth in Anaheim and said, "ok, we buy your strings now. Give me 10 gross Burner Mudiums to start". I was shocked.. 10 Gross? Just one model/style/gauge String? Why not mix it up and take a variety, I asked? "NO, 10 Gross Burner Meduims. You give special Price?" He gave me an offer I couldn't refuse.. End of that story..lol

People look at Minagowa almost in fear as he started the Dist. Business with Moridaira over 40 years ago. He is now the Chairman, up from President when we first met so you can imagine how respected Moridaira is as even Minagowa bows to Toshio. Funny thing is that I have NEVER seen Toshio bow to anyone except maybe me on occassion...:D
 
Rano Bass said:
Nice and entertaining story Ken, he seems like a very respected person.

Well, when I read what I thought was an error about Morris Guitars so I just had to shed some light on it. After knowing them for over 25 years, there are alot of stories to tell.

One time in LA when NAMM was there for a few years, Tak, Moridiara's export VP invited me for thier usual but personal NAMM out dinner. I followed them to a NAMM bus to their hotel, the OMNI, a Japanese hotel. It was Tak, Toship and Minagowa who we call Jack because no one in America can pronounce Yoichi!

So Jack escorts me over to the hotel Concierge desk and tells me "here, sit and talk to my girlfriend" and smiles and tells me to wait there as they go up and change for dinner. They also ask about a good resturant to the young lady at the desk and she looks for the info as they go up the elevator. So being polite I ask, "do you know them, my friends?".. She replies, "NO, I just met them, who are they?".. I told her "Moridaira company (MMI), Morris Guitar?" I say... "OH, Morris?.. they are VERY Famous in Japan. Oh, I better be very nice to them"... looking at if to be ashamed she didn't know who they were at first.

Dinner was a blast... You gotta see these Guys DRUNK!... No Gloves! NONE what so ever with these guys. Tak is very conservative (retired about 10 years ago) and Jack (Toshio's junior), well he is too until Toshio lets loose and opens the door.. Jack is right behind him but Toshio has the floor.. at ALL times..

We had our little 'rat pack' on the Golf course which was usually Toshio, Jim Dunlop Sr. and myself. We have been joined by many over the years as a forth including Bill Kaman (Ovation) and Helmut Schaller (Shaller, Germany). Helmut was another charachter and a great guy as well to talk with. I met him in 1980 as well on my first trip to the Frankfurt Show.

You gotta see these big shots let their hair down!

oops... Mums the word.. I promised not to tell.. That's why they call it a 'private' party!
 
KSB - Ken Smith said:
Well, when I read what I thought was an error about Morris Guitars so I just had to shed some light on it. After knowing them for over 25 years, there are alot of stories to tell.


You gotta see these big shots let their hair down!

oops... Mums the word.. I promised not to tell.. That's why they call it a 'private' party!
Don't worry Ken, i ain't telling no one ;)
 
Matusmoko is the factory you are referring to Ken? They built the Aria stuff for Shiro Arai. They even made a line called 'Shiro'. Morris was one of their products, that was a std. copy line that made Gibson, Fender and Rick copies. Also later they made very good martin copies. I think they had a line called ' moridaira' as well; and yes they are one of the biggest contracting factories, or were until Young Chang came on.
 
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