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Fane Sovereign 10-125 sealed driver

#21
I was thinking 3 stacked horizontal chambers of two (like Ampeg) filled with Acoustistuff from Parts Express according to directions (~ 0.5 lb/ft3). How does Don stuff his cabs? Interested to hear how the Faital/Fane pair works.

... and that 500 Hz low pass?
 
#22
I just tried the fane lowpassed at 500hz and the faital full. Sounded good, the faital sounds more efficient. Another point that I'd like to make is that none of these drivers really have any noticable break modes. You know, where you can hear some high end that is actually distortion. The nv610 drivers have this as do the eden xlt drivers and it's what really give alot of of bass cabs their sound. None of these drivers really have much of that going on and thats really the part that I miss. The B810's have it but, I don't like the big mid dip in them. I just plugged in an old nv610 driver that a tb'er sent me a long time ago and it really is tailored for bass cabs. There isn't too much annoying clack when you rap your plucking hand fingers down on the strings and pickups but, it has those break up modes that make it growl a bit. Quite honestly, you really will have a tough time replicating that with most stock speakers. Maybe even s2010 drivers with one faital would be better. I remember not liking their top end too much but, thats what the faitals are for. They may have some of that distortion to them......This is why Im just putting my money down on a 69'er and probably keeping the nv610.
 
#23
Yup, the guitar 10 or whatever it is in the 69er should give you that bit of top end chime/hint of grit you are looking for. That's what the 8's in my cabs add, and I think it's a cool concept that works extremely well if you get the right combination of speakers and dial in the crossover.
 
#24
Yeah JGR, the devil is always in the details. Im actually having LDS build me a vented 2x15 using 3015 drivers with a tweet so that I can have a reference for a light, loud, modern sounding cab. I'll then have the 69'er which should be the state of the art for a more vintage sound. The 3015 drivers actually seem to have a bit of grind going on which I mostly likely will really like. Im having it tuned a bit tighter than the dually cabs as well. I don't expect it to be my gigging cab but, I do have high hopes for it.
 
#26
The first and second story look basically normal, a few guitars here and there. The basement and garage look like a science experiment though. Im slowly selling off stuff though. I really do enjoy the experiments. I do not recommend diy to most people though. If you think that you are going to come up with something better than what you can already buy, you usually would be wrong. That doesn't mean that some cabs can't be improved with alittle tweaking though!
 
#27
kringle77 said:
I just tried the fane lowpassed at 500hz and the faital full. Sounded good, the faital sounds more efficient. Another point that I'd like to make is that none of these drivers really have any noticable break modes. You know, where you can hear some high end that is actually distortion. The nv610 drivers have this as do the eden xlt drivers and it's what really give alot of of bass cabs their sound. None of these drivers really have much of that going on and thats really the part that I miss. The B810's have it but, I don't like the big mid dip in them. I just plugged in an old nv610 driver that a tb'er sent me a long time ago and it really is tailored for bass cabs. There isn't too much annoying clack when you rap your plucking hand fingers down on the strings and pickups but, it has those break up modes that make it growl a bit. Quite honestly, you really will have a tough time replicating that with most stock speakers. Maybe even s2010 drivers with one faital would be better. I remember not liking their top end too much but, thats what the faitals are for. They may have some of that distortion to them......This is why Im just putting my money down on a 69'er and probably keeping the nv610.
Click to expand...

Still thinking about this sealed 610 with 5 Fane 10-125's and 1 Faital 10FE200 in the upper position on the full range side. The Barefaced 69er will probably be the gold standard for this .5 aligned design but I can't justify $1600 at this point just to test the water and see if I like it. The one thing I didn't pick up from previous posts was what the full range response of the Fane was like. Seems it would be cleaner with less breakup than the Alpha but not as clear as the Faital. With a little grind from roundwound strings and overdrive from the tubes on my Streamliner 900 I think it might work. I'm a stickler about decent power handling because I think I might have to push it to get some of the low end support I'm used to with my ported cabs. If pushed I wonder if the Fanes wouldn't dirty up a bit before the Faital?

With the low price and weight on these drivers I'm pretty sure I could come up with a DIY build under 70 lbs and $500. I'd be willing to risk that much and would probably learn a few things in the process. The one thing I need to get settled before committing to this is the switchable low pass filter and wiring configuration. The cab would have 3 stacked sub chambers with two drivers each. For simplicity to keep this manageable I'd run the Faital full range with a low-passed Fane in the top chamber - content above about this noted.

I was thinking a 1st order low pass (-6 dB/octave) at 500 Hz would be sufficient to attenuate the signal enough to reduce combing effects while avoiding too much mid loss between 500 - 1000 Hz. If this is not so and a 2nd order low pass is recommended please advise. I can provide a diagram later but was thinking:
(+) Speakon -> (+) 3 full range speakers in parallel
(-) 3 full range speakers in parallel -> (+) low pass choke with bypass switch
(-) low pass choke with bypass switch -> (+) 3 low pass speakers in parallel
(-) 3 low pass speakers in parallel -> (-) Speakon

The choke would filter highs from anything down stream so the full range drivers would have to be supplied first. Nominal impedance of 3-8ohm drivers in parallel (2.67 ohms) in series with another 3-8ohm drivers in parallel should be about 5.3 ohms under 500 Hz. Over 500 Hz, contribution from the low passed drivers goes away but impedance of the remaining drivers rises to about 10 ohms by 2.5 kHz and there is not as much power needed at higher frequencies. Would any impedance correction above 500 Hz be needed? I just want to make sure load impedance doesn't drop below 4 ohms to the point it would be a risk to the amp. It's my understanding that a Zoebel network is not required with a 1st order low pass filter and that the Fane Re of 6.6 ohms should be used rather than the 8 ohm nominal rating for inductor sizing. If it's as simple as choosing an appropriate 600 watt low resistance choke for the ~2.67 ohm load that would be great. If not please advise.

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
 
#28
The impedance rises above 500 Hz for the low pass - that's what gives you the attenuation - it will be well above, not below what it is at 500.
 
#29
Cool stuff! I'm putting together a sealed 1x10" with a BP102 and a Ciare silk dome tweeter that goes from 2khz. If I like the results I could think of something bigger. But the BP102 isn't very sensitive so don't know. The Sovereign looks nice on paper but still haven't played thru one.
 
#30
JGR said:
The impedance rises above 500 Hz for the low pass - that's what gives you the attenuation - it will be well above, not below what it is at 500.
Click to expand...

Right, should have seen that. Thanks!

Triad said:
Cool stuff! I'm putting together a sealed 1x10" with a BP102 and a Ciare silk dome tweeter that goes from 2khz. If I like the results I could think of something bigger. But the BP102 isn't very sensitive so don't know. The Sovereign looks nice on paper but still haven't played thru one.
Click to expand...

At only $55 it might be worth trying one out.
Invalid Link Removed
 
#31
I think 5 fanes and 1 faital is a good match. 3 series pairs of 8ohm drivers wired in parallel. 500hz is what Im running but it's a second order. Im not a crossover expert but, I think you will have to run two seperate low pass filters. One for a pair of fanes and one for a single fane. I don't think that you would be dissapointed. Just be sure to break the drivers in with some low noise for awhile before installing. They really are quite stiff and in a sealed cab, would take a LOT of gigs to break in. Im breaking in all of my drivers from now on. Just sounds better and more consistant from gig #1 on.
 
#32
I haven't used a controlled break in but it sounds like a good practice.

3 series pairs of 8ohm drivers, wired in parallel would provide a nominal net 5.3 ohms but would require 3 separate crossovers and bypass switching would take a lot more wiring. Three Eminence PXB:500 Low Pass Crossover Boards would certainly do it for a -12dB low pass but cost $105.
1/(1/(8+8)+1/(8+8)+1/(8+8)) = 1/(3/16) = 5.3

This is why I thought a set of 3 full range 8 ohm drivers in parallel, wired in series with a set of 3 low passed drivers in parallel, would also provide a nominal 5.3 ohm load but only require one heavy duty low pass filter which I'd have to get the appropriate component(s) and build.
1/(1/8+1/8+1/8) + 1/(1/8+1/8+1/8) = 2.67 + 2.67 = 5.3

Seems like only details for the low pass are left:
1. Is a 1st order low pass acceptable for this application or is a 2nd order required for faster attenuation?
2. The Fane Re of 6.6 ohms should be used rather than the 8 ohm nominal rating for inductor sizing?
3. Zoebel network not required for low pass filter?
 
#33
You are over thinking it. Either run an eminence 500hz lp for 4 of the drivers (8ohms) or make your own for one of the 16ohm pairs and one 8 ohm driver. This is the better choice since you really want at least 3 of the drivers producing the full range.
 
#34
The wiring configuration I described is fairly simple. 3 drivers are full range and the other 3 are low passed. It just provides a way to use one filter, which is easier to switch. If the switch is not used then a single dedicated 8 ohm LP filter for each pair would be cleaner with less wiring and give the 3 parallel 16 ohm legs you mentionned. If using a 1st order rather than 2nd order, perhaps it would be better to start rolling off at 400 Hz. With separate filters wired between the drivers of each pair it would be simple enough to build and swap out a couple different filters to see what sounds best. I'm still drawn toward the 1st order because of it's simplicity and more gradual rolloff of the mids; just want to make sure it's enough to control the comb filtering.
 
#35
The crossover aspect is well beyond my knowledge. Im definitely going to follow this project if you try it though. I decided to just go with the barefaced because Im sure that it will be the gold standard for this type of cab and I won't be left wondering "what if I had tried......" I then decided to have LDS build me a state of the art 2x15 ported cab for the exact opposite end of the spectrum at a much lower cost so that I would have a good reference for the two different sounds. Im equally looking forward to both cabs, though I probably could buy 3 of the LDS cabs for the same price as one barefaced. Im pretty sure my cab buying is done after that. Seriously. :smug:
 
#37
Here is a quote from my modded nv610 thread, from me.

While I was experimenting tonight I stumbled across a great combo. Left stack of vertical drivers low-passed at 500hz, two bottom right vertically stacked drivers full range, one fane soveriegn 10-125 hi-passed at 500hz in it's own chamber. The fane has a somewhat similar sound to the bergs so, when it is hi-passed, like most drivers, it gets brighter and clearer but, since it has a similar tone to the bergs, it has alot of synergy. Now the cab sounds like I thought it would sound the day I bought it. This is now my current favorite version of the modded nv610. I also tried a mod10-50 and eminence alpha 10 in this experiment. Alpha wasn't bad but, the fane just mated up better. The alpha may have had a slight bit more grind. Maybe. I highly recommend this one.

So, my conclusion would be to run 3 fane's lowpassed at 500hz 2nd order, 2 fullrange and maybe one hipassed. It most likely would pair up with the others better than the faital.
 
#38
Thanks, that configuration makes sense. I'm reluctant to drop back from 6 to only 5 drivers but that seems to be what's required to get that voicing from a single driver hi-passed in it's own chamber. Those Fane 10-125's have good bass support in a sealed cab. From my WinISD model, excursion limited max power drops from 575 watts for 6 drivers to 480 watts for 5 but max SPL at that power only drops from 130.0 to 129.2 dB which is still plenty loud.

This would also probably work better with one box for the 5 lo-passed & full range bass drivers and a small sub-chamber for the hi-passed driver rather than the 3 identical subchambers I had in mind. Without the higher treble extension of that Faital I'd have to add a good quality tweeter with an on/off switch because there is content around 5kHz that I'd miss at times if it wasn't there. :hiding:
 
#40
I know the mention of tweeter in a sealed cab is blasphemy for some. Actually a .5 aligned 810 composite build might be awsome - maybe 55 lbs. Would that be 4 lo-passed, 3 full range, and 1 hi-passed in it's own chamber? Perhaps a hi-passed Faital for that one? Easy enough to switch out and try both...
 

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