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Fane Sovereign 10-125 sealed driver
- Thread starter kringle77
- Start date
I think the barefaced uses another guitar type driver in the mix for mids/highs, cone cry and grunt. Likely a lot more involved crossover than it takes to just lowpass one side. As well as getting all that stuff to blend just right, have just the right distortion characteristics at just the right power levels, and at the same time manipulating the impedance curve for the 6 drivers into something that is friendly for 4ohm tap tube amps to be cranked up without melting down.
Hey, right there with you guys on the .5! 
Just found it an interesting comparison with a 15"er. 10's beam at ~1.6k, 15's at ~1.1k, staggered 10's maybe at 1k or 900Hz?
Plus I know you both have mentioned how FR just gives a different vibe/flavor that would be better in some situations.
[Edit: to be clear, I'm just saying it doesn't have to be .5, but it could be. If it's full range you get a slightly better dispersion, higher top driver and better form factor than side by side FR. If it's .5'd, of course everything still holds except the dispersion benefit. Or add a switch for either.]
One other issue with my staggered idea, is that the cab would be pretty shallow (~1 ft) to get into even the .9 cf per driver gross range. A sloped baffle could help with that... Hmm...
If these are trade offs someone's willing to except, it does remove the cost, weight and complexity of the crossover.
Then there's always the FR 4x10 column
Just found it an interesting comparison with a 15"er. 10's beam at ~1.6k, 15's at ~1.1k, staggered 10's maybe at 1k or 900Hz?
Plus I know you both have mentioned how FR just gives a different vibe/flavor that would be better in some situations.
[Edit: to be clear, I'm just saying it doesn't have to be .5, but it could be. If it's full range you get a slightly better dispersion, higher top driver and better form factor than side by side FR. If it's .5'd, of course everything still holds except the dispersion benefit. Or add a switch for either.]
One other issue with my staggered idea, is that the cab would be pretty shallow (~1 ft) to get into even the .9 cf per driver gross range. A sloped baffle could help with that... Hmm...
If these are trade offs someone's willing to except, it does remove the cost, weight and complexity of the crossover.
Then there's always the FR 4x10 column
Im on vacation so I've had time to experiment more. Today in my sealed 2x10 I loaded in a fullrange faital and tried both the alpha and fane, each one lowpassed at 800hz just add low end and leave the character of the faital intact. I really liked the sound of both but, found that the alpha had more mid character and the sensativity matched the faital alittle better. Man, I would really consider adding the faital. If I was building an 8x10 I'd low pass 4 alphas on one side, maybe even lowpass two alphas on the other side with 2 fullrange faitals. They just really sound good together. Good synergy happening. I would have to experiment with the alphas on the fullrange side to see if they fought with the faitals too much which, they may.
I'm good with the Faital. That driver seems good top to bottom. If the alpha seems a better sensitivity match with the Faital does this mean it seems more sensitive than the Fane and doesn't have to be pushed as hard to get the same volume? I get the synergy and haven't heard it directly but would still be wary of the alpha's limited low end ability. What happens when you put 500 or 600 watts into a cab loaded with 4 or 5 of these? At 100 Hz and under, six Fanes have twice the excursion limited power handling and +4dB max SPL over six Alphas. Is the tone of the Fanes just "meh" by comparison? Maybe they are just better by themselves and not mixed with others. I wonder how two Fanes in that 210 (one full range one low passed) would sound?
I only have one fane so, I can't try it. I actually ran 2 faitals as well like this and that sounded good too but, they have a certain low mid "boom" to them, maybe around 120hz that can be tamed a bit by added more stuffing. Which I did. Yes, the alphas are louder with the same watts but, I can't really comment on the max output of the different drivers. The fanes have a certain top end that I would call modern. There is some top end that sits alittle above everthing else that you can't see on the frequency response chart. It's actually, probably, the sound of some true clear treble that isn't a break up mode distortion. There are very few drivers that are well suited to sealed cabs and each of them have something going for them. It would be hard for me to really pick an overall best, especially considering different tastes. Probably the fanes are the "overall" best, the faitals have the most "tone", the alphas have some growl and are senative, The B810 can handle some power but I don't care for it on it's own. The B810's and faitals model nearly the same and both require more stuffing so, they would probably be good matches. I also like the they both are fairly easy to get.
I'm interested in the full range/lo-passed dual Fane pairing. If you'd be willing, I can send you a 2nd Fane to be able to check them side by side to see what the tone is like and drive them hard enough to see if there is any good breakup in them. PM me if interested?
I'll pass on the driver but, I do appreciate the offer. Another strong alternative would be to use 5 B810 drivers and 1 16 ohm guitar driver in it's own chamber. I have a strong feeling that this is what the barefaced 69'er is. That would be a 4.5 ohm load. Im hoping that it's not for the price though. The trick is finding the right guitar driver. There are some celestions that would be a good fit I think.
I really think that a .5 alignment with 5 B810's and a 16ohm celstion G10 Vintage guitar driver would really get it done for most guys going after the vintage ampeg 8x10 vibe with more power. Wish that I would have tried it before selling my 8x10 cab.
Im starting to come back to my origional idea that I like drivers with low x-max. They get that great guitar amp mids and highs with some grit. Of course, you need to use alot of them to be useful for bass. I played a modern ampeg 8x10 yesterday and it's a good cab but, it has some woof on the bottom end that I don't like as much as the quick decay of my nv610. That may be why I like the response of the alpha 10 drivers. They only have 3mm of xmax, just like the bergs. If I was doing a vintage flavored 8x10 but, tweeked for my tastes, I'd probably use 6 alphas and 2 jensen mod10-50's. That would be pretty aggressive and tight. Maybe too tight for some. I'll have to experiment some more.
Thanx for your time and effort, I find these experiments really useful since almost nobody has a chance to play thru woofers without actually buying them and putting them into a cab.
You should try the old Celestion BL100, they go up to 6khz but are pretty dry sounding. And dirt cheap.
You should try the old Celestion BL100, they go up to 6khz but are pretty dry sounding. And dirt cheap.
I think I understand your preference. Mine might be a bit different. When I compared an NV610 and NV412 side by side I favored the NV412 because of its thicker low end and a little brighter up top. I think the Fane 10-125's would move it that direction. From my WinISD sims at excursion limited power, 5 of the Fanes would best 6 of any other 10" driver in max SPL under 100 Hz in a sealed cab. I wanted to throw out one other lineup which would use a Celestion TF0818MR in the top position, high passed at 800 Hz. This seemed to have that good mid/treble mojo (not too clear with nice breakup and extension) and would also fill in a dip between 600-800 Hz on its way in, which might help the overall tone when used with a STM900 which is a bit mid scooped. That sealed back mid would also make construction easier and shaves 1" off the depth of the cab. I think it would be worthwhile to incorporate a switchable -2dB L-pad for balance adjustment on that mid which would make the voicing more flexible. Here is a proposed layout and wiring diagram.
I like your thinking here. You are right. I do prefer the leaner, more compressed sound of the nv610 over the nv412. I did like the top end of the 4x12 alot better though.
I think if you drive this cab hard it would also compress but at higher volumes and it wouldn't be as lean in the lows. The Celestion sealed back mid looks like it would extend the high end response another 1000 hz which should be fine for no tweeter. The near field mid/high response would probably be dominated by that Celestion. I'd be interested in how this would work with my Streamliner 900. I think the tone profiles might complement each other well. I put together a bill of materials for this. Total build cost would come in about $750.
I've read the same thing but the TF0818MR was given a thumbs up in earlier screening:
If using a BL10-100X it could probably be high passed at 500 Hz and used for its mid/hi range but then would it need it's own subchamber and what size? I can't see running it full range with the Faitals as it would be the weakest in the set and hold the others back.
I loaded in the celestion and really like it. It is smooth and clear without clack or nastiness. I think this is my favorite mid that I've tried. I've got nothing to nitpick with this one.
If using a BL10-100X it could probably be high passed at 500 Hz and used for its mid/hi range but then would it need it's own subchamber and what size? I can't see running it full range with the Faitals as it would be the weakest in the set and hold the others back.
The old BL100 then but I can't even find any data on it. I imagine it would do better high-passed at 500 Hz in its own chamber. There is a lot of flexibility in substitution if it works in the mix but I'll leave that kind of trial and error to others.
Just to let everyone know, Im selling off all of my raw drivers. I've got all the cabs that I could possibley use and need to focus more on playing than experimenting so check out my for sale thread, "the big 10" speaker sale" Most of the speaker we've talked about in this thread can be found there.
