• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Fane Sovereign 10-125 sealed driver

#41
You can't really predict what the final design will sound like until it's done. If you were to listen to a single bergantino nv610 driver on it's own, you definitely wouldn't being hearing a smaller version of the big cab. All the frequency addition and subtraction, distortions, etc. Probably someone who really know what they are talking about could tell you but, there's not many of them who are also bass players.
 
#42
Sorry if I go a bit off topic... I've put together a sealed 1x10" using a BP102: do you know this driver? How the Fane compares to it (in case you were able to play thru both of them)?
 
#43
Triad said:
Sorry if I go a bit off topic... I've put together a sealed 1x10" using a BP102: do you know this driver? How the Fane compares to it (in case you were able to play thru both of them)?
Click to expand...

They woyld be pretty apples and oranges.

Bp-102 - deep bass, subdued mids/top.

Fane - much more upper response, and likely more breakup when pushed.
 
#44
+1 That's what I like about the Fane's. I think a controlled breakup would make a nice growl but they still seem to have a good bass response, just not as deep as the BP102. In a 4.5 ft3 sealed 610 the BP102 has F3/F10 points about 10 Hz lower but the Fanes have slightly higher excursion limited power handling (575w vs 537), will be about 2dB louder over 80 Hz, and have an extra octave at the high end (4k vs 2k). They are also 4 lbs lighter and $30 cheaper each. That's 24 lb weight savings and $180 cost savings in favor of the Fane 10-125 for a sealed 610. That's why I'm going to try the Fanes and use a Streamliner 900 with a nice fat tubey sounding low end to drive it with. :D
 
#45
As I thought, thanx :)
The cab I've built has a soft dome tweeter that goes from 2khz. Don't 10"s start beaming at 2khz? The cab sounds awesome to my ears... but as you can expect, it's not very loud. With an MB200 you can play standing near the stack with the volume knob at noon...
 
#46
Yes 10's start beaming around 1650 Hz according to this chart so I'll bet a soft dome tweeter with the BP102 would sound good. You could always build another and stack them if you need more volume.
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
A vertical stack is still better than side by side when it comes to mids and highs which is why I'd like to try the .5 alignment. If you want optimum everything I don't think you'll do better than a Thunderchild, or if you want to reach stadium volume levels with optimum dispersion, one of the new Fearless 215's. A vintage sounding sealed 610 with .5 alignment to keep the bass solid and tight but improve dispersion over the traditional 2x3 layout is what got me interested in this. This Fane driver strikes me as an ideal candidate to try an inexpensive lightweight DIY build.
 
#47
5string, I think that you are headed in the right direction. You may want to try running the full range side of the cab, all fullrange first, instead of high passing one of the tens. It may be enough for you and you'll gain alittle power handling. Just make sure your crossover is beefy enough. Also, I really do recommend a 2nd order lowpass because a 1rst order may let too many mids through and mess up the dispersion. I've ran a 2nd order 500hz and 800hz. The 500hz sounded better and dispersion was better.
 
#48
I've come to that same conclusion. I'm going to use a 600 watt 2nd order low pass at 500 Hz and run the full range side all full range. Since I haven't heard how all this sounds it makes sense just to keep it simple and I'm not willing to give up that bit of extra bass and power handling. I'll leave the clever stuff to Alex with his 69er. A straight ahead .5 alignment with the right driver should get the job done at a very reasonable price and sound good. I've got a bracing scheme in mind with light 12mm ply but am contemplating a foam/e-glass composite. Don't know if I dare go down the dark path on that one since I have zero experience but it's tempting. Mike Arnopol is a master at composite builds and he could do a great job with this but then it wouldn't be a low budget DIY... :confused:
 
#49
5StringPocket said:
I've come to that same conclusion. I'm going to use a 600 watt 2nd order low pass at 500 Hz and run the full range side all full range. Since I haven't heard how all this sounds it makes sense just to keep it simple and I'm not willing to give up that bit of extra bass and power handling. I'll leave the clever stuff to Alex with his 69er. A straight ahead .5 alignment with the right driver should get the job done at a very reasonable price and sound good. I've got a bracing scheme in mind with light 12mm ply but am contemplating a foam/e-glass composite. Don't know if I dare go down the dark path on that one since I have zero experience but it's tempting. Mike Arnopol is a master at composite builds and he could do a great job with this but then it wouldn't be a low budget DIY... :confused:
Click to expand...

Man I hope somebody tries this. Sounding like a very well thought out design for a DIY-level build.

As for the composite build, I'd suggest only trying it if you'd get a kick out the novelty. Otherwise it seems you can get plenty close with ply and Alex is nearly at composite weight with whatever magic he's doing. Plus, your previous builds have come out great.

If you go composite, just budget a healthy money and time contingency for "experimenting." Once you get the hang of it, there's not a huge cost premium on the materials compared to top end ply, IMO. For sure lower than the cost of drivers. Biggest problem is it's way more time consuming.
 
#52
astack said:
Man I hope somebody tries this. Sounding like a very well thought out design for a DIY-level build.

As for the composite build, I'd suggest only trying it if you'd get a kick out the novelty. Otherwise it seems you can get plenty close with ply and Alex is nearly at composite weight with whatever magic he's doing. Plus, your previous builds have come out great.

If you go composite, just budget a healthy money and time contingency for "experimenting." Once you get the hang of it, there's not a huge cost premium on the materials compared to top end ply, IMO. For sure lower than the cost of drivers. Biggest problem is it's way more time consuming.
Click to expand...

I've reviewed the composite build threads and as much as I admire the technique and weight savings, I just don't have the time and patience to go through the learning curve. I've had good results with Baltic Birch and Okoume marine ply but haven't been impressed with the Auraco I've seen at Lowes. Italian poplar is a good light weight choice but it's soft so I'm considering TigerLITE because it's outer birch veneers should make it hard enough to take a roll on Duratex finish and the performance data I've seen compare favorably with Oukume and Eurolite.
http://www.tigerply.com/coremenu.html
http://www.worldpanel.com/Plywood%20Data1.pdf
They use this stuff to make cabinets in yachts where light weight and strength is important but bass guitar cabs are a more demanding structural application. Delamination and warping are two potential issues I'd like to investigate before proceeding too far with this but there is a distributor in Houston which has 12mm x 4'x8' sheets of TigerLITE for $30. At this price it's worth picking up a sheet and making a few test assemblies to check it out.
 
#53
You know, even a 410 with .5 alignment would be interesting... It's still a clunky form factor for moving, but that doesn't stop a good half the guys I usually share a bill with. But I do miss my 6x10. It just hits a sweet spot in output and schlepage.

The other cool thing with .5, is if you're getting mic'd, you're sending the full signal to the house, provided the sound guy knows which column is FR.
 
#55
Not sure what to expect with this TigerLITE but I am going to inspect a few sheets and see whether one of them is worth taking home. I'll draw up the bracing later. First the wiring and crossovers.

An 8 ohm 410 with .5 alignment would be easy to build but a 610 does hit a sweet spot in output and schlepage. I drew a simplified network diagram to get a clearer picture of the branch currents and voltage division needed to link these 6 drivers. The important thing is to make sure each one gets the same current so that power is balanced equally between them. Three drivers full range and three low-passed present an odd number to work with. The way I think this can be handled is to divide the current between 3 legs - one full range with 2 drivers in series, one low-passed with 2 drivers in series, and the 3rd with 2 drivers in parallel (one full range and one low-passed) and a dummy resistor block to make a voltage divider which provides the right current balance. The numbers given are at max rated power. The balancing resistors are a gang of five 50 watt low inductance power resistors. This network will provide a 4 ohm load to the amp. If you wanted an 810 just replace the resistor block with another pair of speakers. This would rock but an 810 is bigger than I want to carry up and down stairs.

A lot of folks here on TB don't want to have anything to do with a tweeter but the Fane 10-125 drops off sharply at 4kHz and I like the option of adding some treble extension so I included one. In keeping with off the shelf parts as much as possible for a DIY build I found the Eminence PBX3:3K5 crossover should be able to provide both an 8 ohm 2nd order low pass filter at 500 Hz for one of the woofers and a 3rd order high pass for an APT80 tweeter to blend in if desired. It just won't need the mid taps since all mids are handled by the full range drivers. The 16 ohm low-pass filter uses a heavy duty Earse coil and cap as recommended by Greenboy in his cheap but good crossovers. Earse has a handy crossover calculator to give you the correct values for L and C. My values are actually for 15 ohm which matches the spec sheet impedance graph of 7.5 ohms per driver x2.
Link Removed
Sealed6105Wiring.gif
 
#57
5StringPocket said:
Not sure what to expect with this TigerLITE but I am going to inspect a few sheets and see whether one of them is worth taking home. I'll draw up the bracing later. First the wiring and crossovers.
Click to expand...

Just checked out their website. Looks like their biggest selling point is they use hardwood and not softwood. But it's poplar, which from my bit of woodworking experience and also looking at some data sheets, it's is in the same ballpark as structural softwoods like douglas fir and southern pine. So, on it's surface it seems OK, especially if you handpick, but don't be fooled by the hardwood designation like their marketing department wants you to ;)

5StringPocket said:
An 8 ohm 410 with .5 alignment would be easy to build but a 610 does hit a sweet spot in output and schlepage.
Click to expand...

Thought a bit more about this, and a .5 aligned 4x10 laid out staggered like a 4x12 (i.e. NV412 or GS412) could be a nicer middle ground yet.

In a pretty squat staggered format, it'd be about 24" W x 30" H and puts your top full ranger about 6" higher. Good.

With the drivers lined up at about 45 degrees, which I think is more what 4x12's go for, it's more like 21" W x 36" H putting the top driver @+1 ft. It's basically at 6x10 height in that configuration. Better. (IMO)

Plus it's less of a ridiculous bear hug to move than a 4x10 box and 2/3 the weight of the 6x10 :)

I too would want a bit more high end than these are said to have, at least over 5kHz, I'm thinking. For the time being I think I could live without tweeter sparkle however. With the money saved from 2 less 10"s, I could buy a nice 6" mid and throw it in the dead upper corner and make it a 2.5-way. I'd think you'd want to cross those somewhat higher to keep the 10" breakup (?). So they kind of get squeezed out, maybe only active between 3kHz (?) and however high they go. Or maybe just the 1.5-way with 10FE200's. Plus they come in 4 ohms. Hmm... with the 3dB boost, these get even more competitive in sensitivity to six 8 ohms drivers...

Hmm... either of these is something I like the sound of a lot actually.

OK, way too much thinking for the night :cool:

dukeorock said:
Not really...I've had one smallish IP cab that had the worst dings that went down to bare wood...If I were gonna use IP, I'd prolly Line-X the cab, but that puts a couple lbs back on it :(
Click to expand...

Thanks for the tip! I've had a rat furred IP 2x12 cab for 6 years now, haven't gigged it super hard, but it's seen a couple hundred gigs, and I can't say I've noticed it being a problem. But that's probably more to do with the magic of rat fur. :D
 
#60
Staggering the drivers will create a bit taller narrower profile which is moving in the right direction but I still think the .5 alignment will be a better way to optimize six 10's. You don't need as much surface area or power to project mids but width matters. Consider a couple well-established 2-way cabs like a 12"woofer/6"mid or 15"woofer/8"mid. The mids handle about 25% as much power, have probably 20% of the displacement volume, and are only 50% as wide as the woofer but the frequency response from low to high is well balanced with good dispersion since the crossover delivers the right range of frequencies to the best-suited driver. A 10" driver provides a good full range response for bass guitar but multiple drivers are needed. With a .5 alignment you have twice the number of drivers and twice the wattage driving the lows and low mids that need it. By the time you're into the upper mids the 610 becomes a vertical 310, which is the best configuration for letting those 10's play out the rest of their mid/high response including any cone breakup or other artifacts that add flavor. It's not as efficient as an optimized 2-way system with dedicated woofer and mid but wrings everything out of those 10's that can be had and I think will do a nice old school vibe, especially in a sealed cab. If the .5 alignment is not the best way to address this niche I don't think Barefaced Bass would be putting significant time and energy into the upcoming 69er release.
http://barefacedbass.com/product-range/69er.htm
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back