Fastest tracking octave

[shinobi]

if you're gonna play a really wet sub-octave or 100% sub octave for that matter, i'd advise you to forget analogue octavers altogether. especially since tracking is your concern.

analogue octavers have many advantages over digital octavers, but tracking is simply not one of them. and tracking is really important when you're playing so much wet signal, which is precisely your conern.

anyway if your gonna play a genre that's so electronic, you're not gonna miss the analogue growl that much.

look towards POGs, eventides etc.

 

[JohnDavisNYC]

like i (and others) have stated, with clean technique the OC2 tracks as fast as the notes you play... i have heard no other octaver that can even come close to the speed and articulation of the OC2. yes, obviously it cannot track chords, but as far as fast, clean monophonic tracking (with excellent execution on the bass end) you can't find a faster octaver... the dynamic sensitivity is excellent, as well...

i also have to totally disagree with the post above mine and say that analog sound is absolutely crucial for electronic music in order to get close to an authentic sound... that **** has to be fat, and digital isn't gonna go there, especially in a 100% wet situation where the depth and warmth of the octave signal is even more crucial. girls aren't gonna dance to some thin, wimpy digital sub bass sound...

OC2 fanboy...

john

john

 

[fightthepower]

if you're gonna play a really wet sub-octave or 100% sub octave for that matter, i'd advise you to forget analogue octavers altogether. especially since tracking is your concern.

analogue octavers have many advantages over digital octavers, but tracking is simply not one of them. and tracking is really important when you're playing so much wet signal, which is precisely your conern.

anyway if your gonna play a genre that's so electronic, you're not gonna miss the analogue growl that much.

look towards POGs, eventides etc.

Tracking is really important-- that's why technique is very important.

There are plenty of examples of various analogue octavers being used 100%wet around here, and they track just fine. Digital octavers on the other hand, while they do have tracking advantages, they don't have the fatness or warmth, and they don't have the instantaneous response of pedals like the OC-2--- HOGs/POgs etc included- this isn't always audible, especially in the mix, but there is a difference in the response of envelopes and other effects, and in an electronic genre where you're using lots of effects, this stuff really matters; being able to play chords with a pick-- not so much.

Besides, digital octavers just sound weak on their own. When you're using a 100% wet octave signal as the base of your whole chain, a thin digital signal is not going to cut it! Playing with a blend of your dry bass tone, the digi octave, and distortion is another story, but I strongly disagree about digital vs analog in an electronic setting with a bass guitar.

 

[mikeboth]

Wait a second. Digital - or DSP-based - octavers will give you an exact (more or less) 'copy' of the original circuit, but pitch-shifted an octave. Analog octavers, by their very nature, give you a square or some other rectified wave at the different pitch - the harmonic content is very different.

I don't think it's a matter of digital being 'wimpy', rather it all depends on what sounds you are trying to achieve. If you want your original sound reproduced, but an octave down, your only choice is digital. Analog octavers can have issues if signal dynamics aren't preserved (eg the Pigtronix synth pedal, from what people have said here on TB, and many others), and certainly will have tracking issues.

The 'fatness' that comes from an analog octaver is one of those fortunate side-effects of the divide-by-two circuitry. It does sound cool, but not all people want that kind of tone.

 

[lowbass68]

Does anyone have any comments on how the low octave on the BMS compares to other octavers?

Every octave I have tried has a charactor of it's own. IMO I find it tough to compare octaves as they are very picky about technique, bass quality, pickups, etc. I have seen some players have great luck with one pedal and bad with another pedal, then someone else with opposite results.

I get a good octave sound with the following settings:
Trigger - Full
Sub Octave - Full
Guitar - choose any setting to bend in or eliminate the original octave of your bass. I prefer a between 50 and 75 percent setting.
Octave - set at minimum
Sq Wave - set at minimum
Attack - set at minimum
Resonance - choose any setting.
Start Freqand Stop Freq - Set these the same as each other. I usually set both at midway or higher
Rate - set at minimum

This is my quick pros and cons list of the BMS

The pros of the BMS:
Tracking is as near perfect as analog gets for me, even down the E string.
Tracking is fast, no delay as in my POG which has a slight delay.
Sub Octave has a little gritty sound which is nice.
And you get those crazy synth sounds when you use the pedal as intended

Cons:
Big, especially if you use the old version like mine
More controls to set if you want to change sounds between songs.
The old version requires a 24 volt wall wart.

Just my 2 cents . . .


.

 

[bigchiefbc]

Wait a second. Digital - or DSP-based - octavers will give you an exact (more or less) 'copy' of the original circuit, but pitch-shifted an octave. Analog octavers, by their very nature, give you a square or some other rectified wave at the different pitch - the harmonic content is very different.

I don't think it's a matter of digital being 'wimpy', rather it all depends on what sounds you are trying to achieve. If you want your original sound reproduced, but an octave down, your only choice is digital. Analog octavers can have issues if signal dynamics aren't preserved (eg the Pigtronix synth pedal, from what people have said here on TB, and many others), and certainly will have tracking issues.

The 'fatness' that comes from an analog octaver is one of those fortunate side-effects of the divide-by-two circuitry. It does sound cool, but not all people want that kind of tone.

Thank you for putting this out there. I often see people steer people towards analog pedals regardless of OP's needs or wants. Especially for octavers and delays. I'm not saying that analog circuits don't have unique tones, but most people seem to act like the analog choice is objectively better, which is obviously hooey.

 

[fightthepower]

Wait a second. Digital - or DSP-based - octavers will give you an exact (more or less) 'copy' of the original circuit, but pitch-shifted an octave. Analog octavers, by their very nature, give you a square or some other rectified wave at the different pitch - the harmonic content is very different.

I don't think it's a matter of digital being 'wimpy', rather it all depends on what sounds you are trying to achieve. If you want your original sound reproduced, but an octave down, your only choice is digital. Analog octavers can have issues if signal dynamics aren't preserved (eg the Pigtronix synth pedal, from what people have said here on TB, and many others), and certainly will have tracking issues.

The 'fatness' that comes from an analog octaver is one of those fortunate side-effects of the divide-by-two circuitry. It does sound cool, but not all people want that kind of tone.

Well I tried to be pretty clear on the specific usage of an analog octaver that was in question, and that the 'wimpyness' was not an issue in other musical settings. In this case, it is a matter of the digital being wimpy-- in an electronic setting, the wet octave is used for the synthetic waveshaped tone. The Pigtronix pedal is known for not working with bass so its a moot point.

To restate what was said in my previous post, this is a problem when using a 100% wet octave in a synth chain-- it will sound weak compared to an analog counterpart. And again- I don't find this an issue when using a digital octave to supplement (but not replace) my clean bass tone + whatever else- and thats why I keep digital and analog octavers on my board. The 'fatness' of the analog octavers gets too muddy and has the associated tracking deficiencies in the lowest register- though this is a non-issue in relation the quoted post I replied to above, and the OP who is requesting an octaver for electronic music.

 

[mikeboth]

To restate what was said in my previous post, this is a problem when using a 100% wet octave in a synth chain-- it will sound weak compared to an analog counterpart.

A digital solution would offer more flexibility, if you are willing to add another pedal and some signal mixing / blending (which some people might be willing to do for ultimate flexibility).

Split your bass signal, and feel one channel into a POG / micro-POG etc, then set it for 100% octave down. Then use that output to feed into a distortion / waveshaping / etc pedal. The result here is that you use the excellent tracking ability of a digital pedal to give you a 'perfect' octave down (which is also polyphonic, if that is important), and then combine it with *additional* waveshaping / tonal processing.

This approach, although obviously using many more pedals and connections, then separates out the 'tracking' / 'octave down' portion from the 'tone shaping / controlling' portion, whereas with analog you are 'forced' to accept having all of these variables contained in the one box and single processing step. This makes for a really good single-box solution, however it might not be the *best* solution if people have the money and pedal-board space to go the modular route. The 'use the awesome tracking of digital to get an accurate octave down and then process it separately' approach might actually suit the OP better.

 

[fightthepower]

Squarewave octavers aside, the whole idea is to take the OC-2/smooth analog octaver of your choice, and then waveshape and/or filter. The smoothness/cleanliness of the xOG's vs OC-2/Octabass/Octoplus/etc is negligible compared to the fatness, and especially when using with any amount of filtering or waveshaping.

Personally, I do split my signal and run it through two octave chains, which are shaped/processed and blended back together for further filtering/modulation- But referring directly to the OP and links he's posted in his other recent electronic-related threads, I don't see the point in splitting your signal in the manner you speak of since you are purposefully removing your dry signal anyway- using your dry signal for 'tone shaping and controlling' and then mixing it back together with the digital octave will not produce the desired results, and will more likely just sound like a digital octave mixed with an effected bass guitar...

Based on the information the OP has given us about the tones he is trying to replicate, the only benefit of a digital octaver (other than using what you already have I suppose) I could honestly think of would be its ability to mask sloppy playing... because with proper technique (and remember- Im referring specifically to synth stuff, not fast pick playing in the low registers etc) tracking really is a non-issue with many of the analog octavers out there.

 

[JohnDavisNYC]

yup.

and let us not forget that the question was about the fastest tracking octaver... and i gotta say, i really think that the oc2 wins there. there is no latency... every digital pedal i have ever used had too much latency for me, i'm super picky about that stuff.... the oc2 is as fast as you are, as long as you are clean.

i am like a broken record on this topic!

john

 

[bassbmx]

yup.

i am like a broken record on this topic!

john

Your input is helpful though so it's all good! I'm looking into what you're using (pedals, not substances ) to plan out my pedal buying scheme for a new funk/dub/DnB project I'm putting together.

 

[Rav]

Digitech Bass Synth Wah.

It does a sub octave synth sound. Might be what your looking for.

-Rav

 

[MakiSupaStar]

Might also check out the EHX BMS. tracks great and with the right settings can be use as an octave pedal.

+1. The BMS is a pretty cool octave pedal by itself. I find it tracks a little better than my OC-2. I use both with slightly different settings.

I also have a Digitech Bass Synth Wah. There's some cool octave sounds on this pedal too.

 

[ga_edwards]

There was a video floating around the net of Stu Hamm going through his 'Satriani' rig. He used a Digitech Bass Whammy purely purely for the octaver effect, as he said it's the fastest and most accurate tracking octaver he's ever used.

Might be worth a look.

 

[Gonzo476]

Thanks everyone for the answers so far.

yup.

and let us not forget that the question was about the fastest tracking octaver... and i gotta say, i really think that the oc2 wins there. there is no latency... every digital pedal i have ever used had too much latency for me, i'm super picky about that stuff.... the oc2 is as fast as you are, as long as you are clean.

i am like a broken record on this topic!

john

I think I'm going to try to find a used OC-2 (I'm extremely picky too about tracking stuff) or maybe an MXR, and if I have the money I might check the BMS.

 

[cheapbasslovin]

Every octave I have tried has a charactor of it's own. IMO I find it tough to compare octaves as they are very picky about technique, bass quality, pickups, etc. I have seen some players have great luck with one pedal and bad with another pedal, then someone else with opposite results.

I get a good octave sound with the following settings:
Trigger - Full
Sub Octave - Full
Guitar - choose any setting to bend in or eliminate the original octave of your bass. I prefer a between 50 and 75 percent setting.
Octave - set at minimum
Sq Wave - set at minimum
Attack - set at minimum
Resonance - choose any setting.
Start Freqand Stop Freq - Set these the same as each other. I usually set both at midway or higher
Rate - set at minimum

This is my quick pros and cons list of the BMS

The pros of the BMS:
Tracking is as near perfect as analog gets for me, even down the E string.
Tracking is fast, no delay as in my POG which has a slight delay.
Sub Octave has a little gritty sound which is nice.
And you get those crazy synth sounds when you use the pedal as intended

Cons:
Big, especially if you use the old version like mine
More controls to set if you want to change sounds between songs.
The old version requires a 24 volt wall wart.

Just my 2 cents . . .


.

Just wanted to add one thing. Your filter control placement sounds pretty good to my for my usage, but if you are looking for earth-shattering depth those sliders can be dropped lower. If your packing enough amp/cab power that dropped setting will likely set off a few bowel-quakes.

 

[Jared Lash]

If it helps, [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] of me playing the OC-2 and then the MXR BOD 100% wet. I used good technique but I was doing things to try and show weaknesses in the tracking (skipping strings, playing fast runs, doing slides etc) and you can hear the results.

The OC-2 is the best tracking analog octaver I've tried but the MXR certainly isn't a slouch in that department. The key is to use good technique and to not play more than one note at once, using your right hand to make sure no open strings ring out etc.

Hope that helps.

 

[HalfDayClosing]

i use my digitech bass synth wah for my octaving needs.

I really like it from open A up PLUS it comes with a million other sounds to it! You can get a clean octave or some weird space lazer octave on the suboctave setting.

Both square wave synths also have an octave down and the auto wah has the option of octave down or not.

Some people think this pedal is a large peice of crap, to each his own i guess.

 

[MakiSupaStar]

If it helps, [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] of me playing the OC-2 and then the MXR BOD 100% wet. I used good technique but I was doing things to try and show weaknesses in the tracking (skipping strings, playing fast runs, doing slides etc) and you can hear the results.

The OC-2 is the best tracking analog octaver I've tried but the MXR certainly isn't a slouch in that department. The key is to use good technique and to not play more than one note at once, using your right hand to make sure no open strings ring out etc.

Hope that helps.

+1 on that. Nice clip by the way. Useful. I've found that when using the OC-2 I approach my playing more like an organ with longer more sustained notes. In a run where I might count 1 e and uh 2 e and uh 3. I might just go 1... 2 and 3. It lets the octave kick in. I can get kind of a rotary speaker sound on my OC-2 in some of the lower octaves.

 

[Jared Lash]

+1 on that. Nice clip by the way. Useful. I've found that when using the OC-2 I approach my playing more like an organ with longer more sustained notes. In a run where I might count 1 e and uh 2 e and uh 3. I might just go 1... 2 and 3. It lets the octave kick in. I can get kind of a rotary speaker sound on my OC-2 in some of the lower octaves.

Try adding a phaser (low depth, fairly high rate) or a uni-vibe type pedal after the OC-2 and you can really get in the ballpark of an organ through a leslie type sound.

I have a clip of a song in progress where I use that and then play melodica on top which sounds pretty cool to me. I'll see if I can find it.