Interesting! I wouldn't mind some examples, for my own curiosity. Feel free to PM me :thu:
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Favourite Prog Bassist?
- Thread starter N4860
- Start date
Interesting! I wouldn't mind some examples, for my own curiosity. Feel free to PM me :thu:
As an old Genesis fan (caught them live many times since 1976), and specially because I just saw The Musical Box Extravaganza Tour (3 sets with one set of Trick of the Tail/W & W), I don't think I can recall of any examples where Mike seems lost**. I think he was consistently a clever multi-instrumentalist with the band.
And that is, I think, the main dynamic with the band. Most of the guys played multi instruments and very often changed instruments a number of times within a song. With Mike, the double-necks give it away. If you watch how often (in old clips) he (or The Musical Box's bassist) switches back and forth between bass and 12 or bass and 6. The other night i was stunned how integral each part was. The gritty, rapid strumming of the 12 in the Lamb selections was essential to the structure of the song. But when he switched to bass it too was essential. Naturally, he was playing bass pedals through some of this.
Always playing to the song. That is what I respect.
He has a unique approach because he plays guitars and basses. Very inventive. I like that kind of approach.
**oddly, I often found Mike to have his head tilted slightly back and his eyes closed when playing so many of those great lines. I loved seeing that meditative focus as he just crushed those lines. He looked "lost" in the music alright.
I consider that as being a new-era Genesis fan.
I saw them many times, mostly, pre-1976.
As to Rutherford, he very much is one of the key early prog era bassists, in my book.
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Rutherford lost? Certainly not on Lamb Lies Down On Broadway! His playing on many of those tracks is creative and even aggressive (and what great tone!). Was he always upfront and obvious as a bassist? No, he also played 12 string guitar and bass pedals. However, I will say that once Hacket left, he really did become more of a guitarist, but then, post-Duke, they just simplified their sound entirely.
No, not on the Lamb. Maybe I’m thinking more of the post Gabriel/Hackett era but to be honest, whichever examples I give, I’m bound to get replies of “playing to the song”, etc. To me when he’s good he’s great but when he’s not he’s just OK. As I say, to me. It’s just an opinion. Its just something that I’ve always felt about him, but not about Geddy or Chris Squire, to name a couple of others.
Obviously, some of his lines and patterns were better than others and I can certainly understand that some folks feel that not everything he came up with was brilliant, especially in the later years. Many great players are sometimes just OK in some settings/songs.
You are right; preferences are just like opinions. We all like what we like and dislike what we dislike. That’s what makes the world go around.
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I love Squire and Geddy. But to be fair, Squire plays more like a lead guitarist. Well, maybe not quite right - he did have a bassist's sensibility and great sense of rhythm, but his unique style could be flashy at times - but could you blame him, playing with Howe, Wakeman and Bruford? He had to make himself standout somehow
As for Geddy, RUSH is a trio so it made sense he would try to fill up space by playing more, but he also has a very energetic, pulsating style, and they rocked pretty hard early on so he was pretty aggressive.
I think Genesis' sound was always a bit more reserved than Yes or RUSH. I mean, Hacket's solos were memorable, soaring and melodic, but always polite, lol.
Rutherford's playing on Lamb and also Selling England By the Pound, is fantastic - this was probably the peak of his bass playing, but you're right, in the post Gabriel/Hackett era he was just "OK", both as a bassist and guitarist which suited their sound by the time Hackett left. Even Phil's playing was a bit stripped down at that point, too.
I kinda agree with this, he had potential to be more of a bassist than he was, and I like him most on Seconds Out like on The Cinema Show and the Lamb, and on the studio version of One For The Vine.
As important as they were and are to me still, I can't take that band after Hackett left, Then There Were Three was good song-wise but was transitional and lacked depth comparatively, part of that intentionally, and a misnomer for the tour when they got Stuermer to clone Rutherford's clones of Hackett's guitar style. Any album after that was to me IMNSHO was non-Prog 80s Pop nonsense and The Phil Collins Show. Although not my kind of thing, Collins was a brilliant Pop writer, but a mere shadow of his excellent Brand X-level musician's musician.
Again, I like him, but as a bassist there are mostly snippets rather than a large body of work like the others he's been compared with here. As a songwriter, multi-instrumentalist, and a key contributor to one of the best Prog bands ever is how I think of him.
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To be honest I haven’t listened to them for a while so I’ve gone back to Trespass, NC and Foxtrot. What he’s playing there is often masterful (try Watcher of the Skies for example) but also sometimes lost in the mix a bit (e.g. parts of Musical Box). I’d have to listen again with my AKGs on but most people don’t have studio quality headphones. So the question remains, is this a production issue rather than Rutherford’s playing. I do know that I’ve got tickets to see Steve Hackett play Selling England in November. The band he has now is amazing. I saw him last year and they’re sticking faithfully to the old material now. Suppers Ready live, just wow!
It's a production/mixing issue. Genesis wasn't the only band to have balance problems in their recordings. Renaissance, and the Who come to mind.
Yes, this was a huge issue for Genesis in particular and their re-mixed CDs had their own sets of problems (compression, etc.).
I just had a thought: Do you think Chris Squire was imagining "Watcher Of The Skies" when he wrote the ostinato bass line for "Mind Drive"?
Having listened to the first 4 albums plus “Live” over the last couple of days it’s clear production was a huge part of it. Listen to the tracks on Genesis Live (and the tone) and compare them to the studio versions - there’s a huge difference. If I get a chance tomorrow I’ll listen to W&W and ATotT and compare.
I think "Genesis Live" is my favorite - kind of like the difference between Rush in the studio and on Exit... Stage Left - it's like the sound has been perfected.
I am so happy that my first time experiencing Genesis was at a concert in a small gymnasium (April 14, 1973). Ruined me for life! 
Mine was Guildford Civic Hall - kind of a home gig for them at the time as Phil lived 3 miles away in my village, Mike lived about 10 mills away. Venue was about 1,500 with all standing downstairs. I was about 30feet back from the small stage. This was my first ever concert.I am so happy that my first time experiencing Genesis was at a concert in a small gymnasium (April 14, 1973). Ruined me for life!
I agree, with the exception of Duke. There were signs of things to come on that album (really lousy pop ballads) but there was still some good stuff on there - they still had a foot in prog.
Remove "Misunderstanding", "Heathaze", "Alone Tonight", and "Please Don't Ask" and you're left with a pretty good album. Yes, I left "Turn it on Again" off this list but remove that and that's a pretty short album, plus, that song has grown on me over the years (even "Misunderstanding" is catchy, just would have been better as a non-album single).
Reminds me of Yes' Tales of Topographic Oceans where some real heavy editing would make that a great album (like removing 5 or 6 minutes from the 1st track, 10 minutes from the second, and eliminating the 3rd track entirely).
But yes, Hackett leaving really changed their sound even more than Gabriel. And Then There Were Three has a few really great songs ("Down and Out" and "Ballad of Big" are faves of mine), but mostly it's a weak album, overall for me - Duke is the stronger album, even if it is less "proggy".
They lost me after 1980. Though, I admit to really liking "That's All".
