Looks like the biscuits work just about everywhere else, so maybe just skip them at the problem location. If he's going to use PL, that stuff is greasy and the biscuits will help hold stuff in place while he clamps or screws them together.
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fEarful 12/6 kit : a total noob build diary
- Thread starter mambo4
- Start date
Looks like the biscuits work just about everywhere else, so maybe just skip them at the problem location. If he's going to use PL, that stuff is greasy and the biscuits will help hold stuff in place while he clamps or screws them together.
Here's a thing you could use to assemble your box.
Make like 4 of these and they're great if you don't have a helper. They help make sure your panels go together square.
Make like 4 of these and they're great if you don't have a helper. They help make sure your panels go together square.
I have some store-bought right-angle clamp aid thingeys, but I hadn't thought of making something like those illustrated in @Doufuss's post...they look they'd work pretty well. That said, something tells me that if the OP had the tools and technology to fabricate the devices that are illustrated, he wouldn't need to be building from a flat pack. Keep in mind he's a self-acknowledged newbie, who has 'no proper tools' and had to look up what 'dry fit' means and what biscuits are.
If this is the only problem with the assembly, it would be far better to shorten the braces than to omit the biscuits, structurally speaking. IMO, anyway.
If this is the only problem with the assembly, it would be far better to shorten the braces than to omit the biscuits, structurally speaking. IMO, anyway.
I mathed it out 15.50 * 20.25 * 0.125 = 39.234375, so moving the baffle back 1/8" actually reduces the chamber volume by 39 cubic inches. I'm not sure how much that alters the tuned response of the cab, but It makes me think the wisest but ( most challenging ) course is to stick with the plans, and ignore the biscuits for the baffle.
So now I face the challenge of reliably lining the baffle up for gluing. The only power tool I have currently is a cordless drill, which would mean pilot holes and assembly screws to hold things in place. But I also have an air compressor ( for some reason ) and am considering a purchase of a pneumatic brad nailer. The instructions imply that with a nailer you can skip the pilot screws. The only video I found at speaker hardware about use of a nailer shows it used to prevent sliding boards off the line when pilot screws are driven...so it implies needing both?
Anyone have experience assembling cabinets with a nailer? does it truly replace the need for pilot screws?
So now I face the challenge of reliably lining the baffle up for gluing. The only power tool I have currently is a cordless drill, which would mean pilot holes and assembly screws to hold things in place. But I also have an air compressor ( for some reason ) and am considering a purchase of a pneumatic brad nailer. The instructions imply that with a nailer you can skip the pilot screws. The only video I found at speaker hardware about use of a nailer shows it used to prevent sliding boards off the line when pilot screws are driven...so it implies needing both?
Anyone have experience assembling cabinets with a nailer? does it truly replace the need for pilot screws?
A nailer can substitute for screws if you're just trying to hold the panel in place while clamping. Personally, I wouldn't try to build the cab with just nails if you don't have clamps to help hold the assembly tight while the glue is setting. As others have observed, if you use screws (properly, not just 1 or 2 per joint) then the clamping is less critical. I've built cabs using nothing but yellow carpenters glue and 1/4"-crown staples for more than 40 years. The way I've always figured it, the nails are just there to hold the panels in place while the glue sets, but I still set staples every 4-5" for additional structural integrity, and I still clamp the joints until set.
This is also just my personal opinion, but I wouldn't sweat the loss of 39 cubic inches in a box that is what...4500 cubic inches? That's about .8% variation...that's really not enough to worry about, IME.
This is also just my personal opinion, but I wouldn't sweat the loss of 39 cubic inches in a box that is what...4500 cubic inches? That's about .8% variation...that's really not enough to worry about, IME.
Nails dont replace screws in your case because you dont have adequate clamps. You need the screws to keep the joints tight while the glue expands and cures. You can use two finishing nails on the edge without biscuits to maintain alignment. As Doufuss mentioned the PL is greasy (slippery) and you will be cursing to keep alignment.
I suggest to: align & nail the edge in question dry but dont fully drive the nails. Hammer lightly from inside to back the board away ( without losing the nail) to create a gap for glue. Apply glue & fasten down with nails & screws.
Once the glue is fully cured you can remove the screws if you want.
Edit: Dont be shy with the glue. The entire length of every joint must be airtight. You want a bit of squeeze out everywhere. Dont try to wipe the excess with a paper towel. Let it dry for a few hours and scrape away with a chisel or sharp putty knife..presto.
I suggest to: align & nail the edge in question dry but dont fully drive the nails. Hammer lightly from inside to back the board away ( without losing the nail) to create a gap for glue. Apply glue & fasten down with nails & screws.
Once the glue is fully cured you can remove the screws if you want.
Edit: Dont be shy with the glue. The entire length of every joint must be airtight. You want a bit of squeeze out everywhere. Dont try to wipe the excess with a paper towel. Let it dry for a few hours and scrape away with a chisel or sharp putty knife..presto.
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I watched a youtube video that explored the relative strengths of different types of joints: Butt, dowel, and tenon. In the course of his testing he found that clamping pressure was key for the adhesive to function at its best. A properly glued and clamped butt joint will be very strong and in testing was very nearly as strong as a dowelled joint.
Of course. He wouldn't be able to fab these up without some tools. That's one of my patented brain cramps. There is however a lot of complex woodwork a guy can do with a jigsaw and a drill. And a google.
I built my first cabs--from a JBL DIY guide--with little more than a drill and circular ('skill') saw with a straight edge. And a good square. And clamps.
In looking at YouTube videos, I've seen about as much 'instruction' that I know to be wrong as I have that is right; skeptical caution is advised.
In looking at YouTube videos, I've seen about as much 'instruction' that I know to be wrong as I have that is right; skeptical caution is advised.
and as mentioned, the debris that cld be left in slots.
But you really need some actual clamps, and sadly they aren't cheap. For this project, you could get away with the cheap plastic import tool store, as they sorta work in the beginning, they just wear out too fast for years of service.
Nice work so far tho, cant wait to see finished product.
What are you doing for a speaker grille? (please tell me not those lil circle ones that just cover speakers? Such a great cabinet, then ruined by cheesy looking "KMD amplifier" grills, as I call them. )
I thought he said he has one..(the only tool he had) I was assuming it was a screwdriver/drill type unit..
Agree!! skip the biscuits in that one area where they are off.
Dry fit it all up again (without bizkits in that place) and mark and drill some screw holes. Then when ready to glue, you'll have the holes there ready to go.
YMMV
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Just remember that brad nails and router bit are not the greatest match. If you intend to round the edges with a router, put screws instead for glue up if you don’t have enough clamps and remove them when the glue is cured.
Brad nailing makes life harder at the finishing point.
Do not underestimate the difficultly in holding panels in place once the glue is on. That is the other main benefit to biscuiting. You can get away with slapping together and clamping.
Since you already have a drill you are almost there.
I am not sure how the ordinary assembly order goes with biscuits. Looking at your pictures I would assemble and glue one side to base, then the port. Then clamp the baffle in place and pop two screws in dry before backing out the screws and gluing. Leave ~1/8" of screw poking through stops the greased/glued baffle from skating around too much while you clamp it. Might as well screw it for good measure You might have to leave out the biscuit on the port when it comes to putting the other side on.
See your other thread for easy DIY right angle glueing clamps.
Hey guys , thanks for all the in put. It sounds like a nail gun is a waste of effort, and screws are the way to go -especially when compensating for those off kilter biscuits. With the glue delivery still pending, it seems like next weekend's project might be drilling pilot holes...carefully..., and possibly "dry fitting plus screws" to make sure things line up.
So if I understand correctly, your baffle board will have some unfilled, open slots for the absent biscuits, edge-on, in 1/2" ply?
Keep checking and rechecking.
You can't be too careful.
It's hard to have too many clamps.
The cheap Harbor Freight ones won't last very long.
They don't have to if this is the only cab you ever build.
Before you use the PL carefully check again.
Be sure!
PL is harder and STRONGER than the wood it will bond!
You can't be too careful.
It's hard to have too many clamps.
The cheap Harbor Freight ones won't last very long.
They don't have to if this is the only cab you ever build.
Before you use the PL carefully check again.
Be sure!
PL is harder and STRONGER than the wood it will bond!
Yeah, hitting exactly where you want in a side panel with a biscuit jointer isn’t that easy. When my slots are slightly off, I hit em again with the jointer. A slightly wide slot is better than no biscuit, IMHO.
I’d adjust the slots that need adjusting by removing some more material. If I had only a drill and a utility knife, I would do a bit of careful drilling and clear out the chunks with the knife.
Biscuit jointers are great with 3/4” materials and thicker. For our 1/2” Baltic birch, (12mm) it takes some adjusting with a jig to get the biscuit centered in the thickness of the panel. And it’s really easy to get a little off doing the cut into the side for the baffle biscuits.
Once you’ve adjusted the baffle biscuits, and everything fits, drill a few pilot holes and use small screws to hold things.
Double check to make sure the baffle is oriented correctly and facing the right way.
For a real brain twister, try a 12/6 cube from scratch.
Don’t forget to reward yourself when you get it together. These are the cheap harbor freight clamps. If one ever slips, they’ll give me another. Notice all the marks.
Nice job sussing out the issue. Carpentry is all about really seeing what’s going on. Keep on keeping on!
I’d adjust the slots that need adjusting by removing some more material. If I had only a drill and a utility knife, I would do a bit of careful drilling and clear out the chunks with the knife.
Biscuit jointers are great with 3/4” materials and thicker. For our 1/2” Baltic birch, (12mm) it takes some adjusting with a jig to get the biscuit centered in the thickness of the panel. And it’s really easy to get a little off doing the cut into the side for the baffle biscuits.
Once you’ve adjusted the baffle biscuits, and everything fits, drill a few pilot holes and use small screws to hold things.
Double check to make sure the baffle is oriented correctly and facing the right way.
For a real brain twister, try a 12/6 cube from scratch.
Don’t forget to reward yourself when you get it together. These are the cheap harbor freight clamps. If one ever slips, they’ll give me another. Notice all the marks.
Nice job sussing out the issue. Carpentry is all about really seeing what’s going on. Keep on keeping on!
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