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Fearful vs FRFR

G

Gord

Jan 10, 2004
458
102
40
Calgary, Alberta
cera.bandcamp.com
#1
Hello!
I have a tube/610 setup that I absolutely love, but lately, every show I go to insists I just run through the PA. I've been using my huge setup as a quiet monitor, and it's not really worth it to haul all of that stuff every time.

I bought a Line 6 helix, and have been looking into FRFR solutions to monitor what is going out to the PA. Definitely looking for something light!

I've wanted to build a Fearful 15/6, but I'm wondering - could I go even cheaper? Even lighter? I was looking at these ([Invalid or Expired Link Removed]). About half the price of a Fearful. I'm not looking for earth shaking bass, I'm basically looking to hear what the PA is playing. Full range, flat response. What would be my best choice here? Does anyone have experience with the FRFR112 or equivalent on bass? I've done a lot of searching, every night, but I can't seem to find much.
 
#2
No, no way is it 2000 watts. I rolled my eyes when I saw that. But not looking for much more than just stage monitoring, so I can overlook the BS for that!

The problem with combo amps is that I mostly want something that's ruler flat, no colouring, and full range. Right now I have the line 6 helix through a power amp and my NV610, and while it sounds awesome, I have to send a separate feed out of the Line 6 without cab simulation. I would love to have a situation where what I send to the PA is exactly what I send to a flat, full range cabinet, so I can dial in tones at home - no surprises on show day!
 
#3
I deleted my post, as I have no first hand knowledge of the FRFR stuff. It might be a great speaker if you can get past the inflated 2000 watt power rating. Plus it says it's designed for guitar so the driver might not handle any low end. Of course like I said, I have no idea.
 
#4
oh no problem! Yeah, this is extremely new to me, and there doesn't seem to be much info out there. As usual, completely guitar dominated. Still - hearing the Line 6 Helixs through a PA with subs was unbelievable. I had it set up to emulate an SVT+810 in the lows, and a distorted marshall in the highs - EQd to only touch the highs. I have two pedal boards full of different combinations trying to get a sound that I managed to nail in a few minutes of tweaking. Plus - the whole thing weighs 15 pounds! I don't know too much about FRFR, but I'm certainly ready to learn!
 
#5
Why don’t you give Mr Quilter(@?) or @Bob Lee (QSC), a page, perhaps they could write a patch for dead flat on the new K 12.2 (.3?) they already come loaded with a couple of bass oriented EQs. And from all accounts it’s working quite well for a replacement/alternative to a traditional bass amp and speaker system for users now.

@Quillt
 
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#6
Kirk Bryant said:
Why don’t you give Mr Quilter(@?) or @Bob Lee (QSC), a page, perhaps they could write a patch for dead flat on the new K 12.2 (.3?) they already come loaded with a couple of bass oriented EQs. And from all accounts it’s working quite well for a replacement/alternative to a traditional bass amp and speaker system for users now.

@Quillt
Click to expand...

WHOA. I had no idea such a thing existed. This is awesome! Time to get reading!
 
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#10
wanting "flat response" is a diff thing than "no surprises on show day," as every stage and venue is going to have it's own set of responses to your sound. I almost always have to tweak things one direction or another to hear what I want at this venue or that venue.
At any rate, a fF flat pack is going to be a pretty decent cost to value cab, if you have diy skills.
 
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#11
Gord said:
No, no way is it 2000 watts. I rolled my eyes when I saw that
Click to expand...

Same here.

But I see they walked that claim back a little on their specs page if you read between the lines. Kinda jive way to present it, but there ya go.

Output Power: 2000 W peak (1300 LF + 700 HF) 1000 W continuous RMS (650 LF + 350 HF)
Click to expand...

So it’s 650 RMS for the LF driver and 350 RMS for the HF driver.

Still the rest of the specs make me think this is one loud little full range box.
 
#13
I also have a Helix and have spent a fair amount of time researching powered speakers and I decided to save up for a QSC 12.2. The main reasons are the .2 series has user adjustable eq, under 40lbs (barely) , and has a 6 year warranty ( this is a big deal to me). I have used an older k12 and it did a pretty good job, but I would definitely prefer the 12.2 so I can cut some lows. That's a good problem to have.
 
#14
40Hz said:
Still the rest of the specs make me think this is one loud little full range box.
Click to expand...

I have one, and a Helix. It IS one LOUD little box, and sounds great. I wouldn't use it for a main rig on a large stage with a loud band, but as a monitor or for average bar gigs it's more than sufficient and, considering the lack of reliability complaints with recent Alto products (that's what it is, an Alto TS312 without mic pre), I couldn't see spending a lot more for the "pro" brand names.
 
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#16
My big thing with most "FRFR" boxes is that the low-end extension just isn't there. The Headrush is 10db's down at 46hz, so actually dialing in bass tone with some idea of how it will sound in the PA is going to still be a challenge. Fundamental frequencies do matter when the PA out front is extending down lower than your FRFR solution. The low-end drop off is going to be significant, which makes me hesitate calling that box "full-range" for the purpose of bass guitar. That being said, I'm sure it'll work for a lot of people who aren't as concerned with frequency response getting down to the fundamental of a low B, etc. Personally I'd be looking at a Fearful + Sub or similar (powered PA Cab plus sub perhaps?) if my FRFR was going to be my main rig, as I would certainly want to be able to hear the full frequency range that a good PA will reproduce, while I was dialing in my sounds. Most standalone powered PA cabs just don't go low enough for my liking. YMMV, of course.
 
#17
rd2rk said:
I have one, and a Helix. It IS one LOUD little box, and sounds great. I wouldn't use it for a main rig on a large stage with a loud band, but as a monitor or for average bar gigs it's more than sufficient and, considering the lack of reliability complaints with recent Alto products (that's what it is, an Alto TS312 without mic pre), I couldn't see spending a lot more for the "pro" brand names.
Click to expand...

Agree. I see nothing wrong with spending less on a piece of gear if it’s reliable and gets the job done for you. At least not in my book. :thumbsup:
 
#18
Kinda
Some assume they want ruler flat.
But use normal straight forward EQ settings which is not flat anyways.

You like the 610 alot and it sounds fine.
Not ruler flat. But does fine.

More about downsizing and a simple 2 driver 2x12 would be easier carry, plenty stage volume. Probably be surprised how good a pair nice drivers sound. No fiddle diddle with mids tweets or crossovers. Wires straight to good sounding 12s, all done
 
#19
Balog said:
If you want accurate reproduction at relatively low levels ie stage monitor only, then a self powered PA cab would be a good choice. I’d trust something from QSC or JBL or one of the more pro oriented companies like EAW or Danley etc before an effects company.
Click to expand...
I'd put in a good word for EV here, too...

Invalid Link Removed
 
Last edited:
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#20
Barisaxman said:
My big thing with most "FRFR" boxes is that the low-end extension just isn't there.... Fundamental frequencies do matter when the PA out front is extending down lower than your FRFR solution.
Click to expand...

The lows coming from the FOH sub-woofer will fill in that "missing" lowest octave. In fact the LAST thing you want on stage is to add more of that energy into the air.

When listening to just the FRFR cab by itself you may need to be aware that you're not hearing the lowest octave so don't mess with the lows much. But for everything from say 80 Hz up, you should be good to go. Although the sound of the bass through a FRFR cab at your feet may be quite different than the sound the audience hears, some 20 to 50 feet from the FOH speakers.
 

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