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Feeling out of tune while on stage?

#81
Bass'd on a true story said:
I've wondered a lot of it's some kind of phasing issue with monitors vs PA or something to that effect.
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This is possible, but I would start with the guitar(s), keyboard and drums, looking for specific tuning conflicts or distortion effects. I worked with a guitar player who tried out a pedal that put out a semblance of Leslie effect, and it totally messed with my ears until it accidentally flew out a second-story window one night.
 
#83
Was talking to someone yesterday about the importance of playing as close to the fret as possible to be "in tune". Sometimes in my excitement I can get comfortable just hitting the note.

But, that's probably not your deal....I'd say it's the guitar player. Usually is.
 
#84
All stringed instruments in the band should be brought to the same guitar tech for intonation. Different techs use different methods. Some like to intonate at the 3rd and 15th fret for smoother intonation, other techs like to intonate at open and 12. No two techs use the same amount of finger or pick pressure when intonating. Ideally, intonation should be set by the player themselves, using the medium amount of pressure usually used when playing live.

I stopped bringing my instruments to techs and learned to do my own setups because far too often I see techs intonate with feather light touch to be super accurate, but then when I play the instrument live and use regular pressure, the intonation is off.

Also, it's ok if the intonation is slightly sharp during initial attack, and flat after leveling off. If your in a fast metal band, I'd try to intonate more towards the initial attack of the note as the intonation point, but if i was in a blues or jazz band, I'd use a "one e and a 2 e" count to set the intonation.
 
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#85
I would not be too concerned as long as you know your all tuning to the same center frequency, I have been in situations where a bandmate's tuner has been bonked around and the center frequency had been moved without realizing it. As mentioned above everyone has their instrument set up by different people so there is always going to be a discrepancy between them if you really tune in and on top of that everyone plays their instrument differently. For instance I tend to have a heavy right hand fingerstyle so I'll adjust my tuning / playing slightly to compensate, I don't plan for it though to be honest it is just an on the fly kinda thing if I think it sounds off.
 
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#86
I think my ears play tricks on me when the music is too loud. I would think it could also be related to EQ - less mid-range/high-freq information and my ear can get wonky. But I don't play out much - I have rehearsal and a gig this weekend so I'll get the chance to see - fortunately this band doesn't play too loud!
 
#87
Bass'd on a true story said:
Shortest post of my life, but does anyone else consistently feel like their bass is out of tune while they are performing? The past 3-4 gigs I've done, my bass sounds out of tune in my monitors. I tune my bass with a muting pedal tuner between almost every song lately out of paranoia. It's always 100% in tune and we have people who record our gigs nearly every time. When I listen to our gigs recorded, the tuning/intonation is as good as anyone could ask for.

Does anyone else have this problem? It's beginning to drive me crazy. It makes me hold back my playing, because I feel like I'm a 1/4 step out of tune half the time.
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Yes. Sometimes. I think when my tinnitus is kicking in, or my ears are just plain tired. I trust my tuner, and let it go. You should too.
 
#89
Bass'd on a true story said:
Two things I want to reemphasize.

1. It's a 3 piece with just guitar/bass/drums + vocals.

2. The recording is perfectly in tune, so it's not an actual tuning issue of any sort. I just perceive it as being out of tune from the stage. That's what I'm trying to sort out.
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Then I'll join in with those who think better monitoring would help. Maybe the rumbly wash from the mains is throwing you off and clearer bass in your feed would help.
 
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#90
It's an aural mirage rather than an visual mirage.
It depends on the room and the other instruments. It mostly happens when just the drummer and myself start a song.
When the other instruments come in it sometimes sounds like they are in the wrong key or I'm out of tune. It take 5 seconds or so for my brain to process the sound and realize we're spot on.
 
#92
rickdog said:
Seems like I've had this happen and figured out that it was one of the lower-pitched drums... the fundamental clashed with bass on stage, but wasn't really noticeable out front.
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Exactly! I just found and read through this thread. I had the same issue with a band I joined about a year ago. Drove me totally nuts, and no one else noticed the intonation problem that was killing me. Found the cause a couple of weeks ago.

The drummer has a great set of Yamaha acoustic drums. The bottom of the floor tom and the front, not beater side, of the bass drum were resonating at different notes, set off by my bass notes and totally out of tune. Tightened the heads and a little muting on the bass drum solved the problem, totally. I thought I was going deaf or nuts since it didn't bother anyone else, and it isn't a very loud band.

Hope this helps.

Mark
 
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#93
ubernator said:
read up on the side effects. The only time I experienced it was in a hospital with a meathead max dose type of doctor (the amount of seroquel he was giving me at the same time was criminal, probably why I have not been able to beat the diabetes since, and that was 6 years ago). I called my job on the phone in there, and when a coworker answered, his voice was all funky deep, and I recognized exactly what it was.

Have not been on that high a dose ever since, and in the last 6 years I have been on the same dose.

But sometimes weed will make even rush recordings sound like geddy Lee can't play lol. The last time I had that feeling of being out of tune, my last show actually, I had made it a point to turn down the offered smoke session until after we played.

Usually it makes me.hear every single nuance, bionic ears.
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A good 15 years ago I've read over a dozen webpages on the side effects of Tegretol.
I don't remember reading that "Too high of a tegretol level can make sounds appear 1/2 step flat".
What I do remember is that I found an explanation for a liver and brain infection that I caught, not long after I'd built of taking Tegretol according to a schedule that my neurologist prescribed.

My doctor at the time said that brain and liver infection (encefalitis & hepatitis) are usually caused by viruses. And my blood did't show any virus or remnants of viruses, it did show that I'd overcome a very serious internal infection. The doctor couldn't give an explanation for the infections. But reading in on the side effects of Tegretol about 15 years later did.
It seemed that taking Tegretol at a young age for a long period can have a side effects on the organs it is working on (brain & liver) after you stop taking it; infection as a reaction of the organs that have been affected by it for a long time.
 
#94
Stempelloos said:
A good 15 years ago I've read over a dozen webpages on the side effects of Tegretol.
I don't remember reading that "Too high of a tegretol level can make sounds appear 1/2 step flat".
What I do remember is that I found an explanation for a liver and brain infection that I caught, not long after I'd built of taking Tegretol according to a schedule that my neurologist prescribed.

My doctor at the time said that brain and liver infection (encefalitis & hepatitis) are usually caused by viruses. And my blood did't show any virus or remnants of viruses, it did show that I'd overcome a very serious internal infection. The doctor couldn't give an explanation for the infections. But reading in on the side effects of Tegretol about 15 years later did.
It seemed that taking Tegretol at a young age for a long period can have a side effects on the organs it is working on (brain & liver) after you stop taking it; infection as a reaction of the organs that have been affected by it for a long time.
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Ouch! Thanks for the heads up. I know the system above the system behind the system that's pulling the strings of the elites does not want me to live forever (and the ones that do have long since been banished from power), so it is quite possible it is just a slow acting bullet.

How long were you on it and how young did you start? I didn't start till 35 and I'm 42 now, dose has been 600mg for the most part. The other stuff they hit me with first almost killed me in less than a month, and gave me diabetes in a matter of weeks. So tegretol seems like a lesser evil. I'm also on trileptal, but maybe I should talk to my Dr about lowering the tegretol and upping the trileptal,.which is supposed to be less harmful on the liver.

PM me with more info, perhaps this shouldn't be public.
 
#95
Gremlin 1.jpg
Maybe you have one of these guys lurking around somewhere? :whistle:
 
#96
I read this thread a few days ago, and tried to do some research, As happened to me playing acoustic in a worship service.
I seemed off. (not unusual), but my tuner said I was right on. Knowing that this sometimes happens, piqued my spirit (pun not intended). I want to blame the other choirs who keep moving the mics back subjecting the sound system to feedback. [as bass player, I play a row back, if they keep moving the mics, I'll be setting outside{is this the answer to someone prayers?}] In optics there is the cos to fourth power loss of light and there are newton's rings, I am just wondering if a similar rules apply to sound.
I saw thread a few weeks ago where an explanation was given that this is actually a common phenomenon. Notes at different frequencies sometimes create notes that were not being played. The frequencies most created were the low notes, the realm where we live.
An Italian engineer discovered this phenomenon and for the life of me, I can't the reference to his work.
  1. So now you know you are not crazy, tormented, but not crazy.
 
#97
I've noticed this kind of thing on a few gigs too, OP. It usually bothers me for the first few songs of a set and then i think my ears "get used" to it. The recordings sound fine as far as tuning, but i will feel like i'm out of whack. I've noticed it the most when I'm having issues with monitors and the mix, such as too little guitars (yes it's a real thing).
 

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