It’s interesting. I have an American Standard from 2014 with the carbon rods in the neck, and a MIM with a standard neck. I haven’t noticed any difference in stability at all. YMMV.
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Fender Am. Prof. II Precision vs Player Precision
- Thread starter Phaidrus
- Start date
D
Personally I think it comes down to the neck profile. Get the one you find most comfortable and upgrade whatever you find necessary. If you don't like the neck profile you won't be happy no matter how much money you spend on upgrading pickup&hardware.
I've had many of both these models coming through the workshop. I also own a Player + an AmPro I. For what it's worth, these are my personal thoughts on the differences:
-Build quality: More or less the same. The AmPro has composite rods in the neck which makes it more stable and resistant to changes in temperature/humidity. I suspect these rods may also contribute to slightly less noticable dead spots on the AmPros. All Fender basses have dead spots though. The fret ends are generally nicer on the AmPro. I've seen a couple of Players with rather sharp fret ends but nothing 5 minutes with a file can't fix and most of them are fine.
-Fit&finish: More or less the same although I've seen a couple of extremely poor AmPros. The Players seem to be more consistent, or at least just have minor blemishes. When the AmPros are bad they can be REALLY bad.
-Truss rod: Single action on the Players, dual action on the AmPro. This shouldn't really matter unless the neck is flawed or maybe if you plan on using EXTREMELY light gauge strings like Thomastik Jazz Rounds. Ultra low tension strings like these might need a little help from a double action truss rod to get enough relief.
-Wood: The pau ferro Fender use on Player series instruments is rather ugly IMO. I normally like pau ferro but Fender must have gotten a huge amount of bland looking ugly pau ferro for cheap. With MIM Fenders it's maple or nothing for me these days.
-QC: In my experience the Players are more consistent. I've seen some absolutely shocking issues with the AmPros but I will strongly recommend trying before buying with either of these basses as they can vary a lot.
-Pickups: The Player pickup is ok but not great. Perhaps a tiny bit more upper mid bite than a "classic" P-bass pickup and a tiny bit muddier in the lows than the best pickups out there. I've never played a V-Mod II through a full rig, only through a practise amp at the workshop so I can't really comment on that one. I have lots of experience with the original V-Mod pickup though. It doesn't quite have the classic P-bass "bite". It's a slightly smoother take on the P-bass tone. Also very low output and the Alnico II/V mix makes the tone inconsistent across the strings. They've kept the Alnico II/V mix on the V-Mod II so I expect this particular issue may still be present. As for the rest I'm not sure how much difference there is between V-Mod I/II but keep in mind that the original V-Mod was more or less universally disliked. Try before you buy!
-Hardware: I can't stand the tapered tuning shafts on the AmPros. I've experienced several cases of string breakage when loosening/re-tightening the strings for service/setup. The downward pressure seems to lock the windings against each other at the bottom of the shaft, causing them to break at the shaft when bringing the strings back up to pitch. I've never experience breakage when installing brand new strings on an AmPro though. I'm not a huge fan of the AmPro bridges either. The multiple notches in the saddles may seem like a good idea in theory. In real life I never seem to find notches that will both give me an even string spacing AND line up the strings over the pole pieces. If the bass is properly built it shouldn't be necessary to have multiple notches. The Player series tuners are decent but I've seen a couple go bad prematurely which isn't very reassuring. The Player bridges are the classic, basic Fender type but I've heard several complaints about dropping saddles (I've also experienced this on my own Player P).
-The Fender "vibe": AmPros are upgraded, modern Fenders. Whether you like these upgrades is a matter of personal taste. Players are closer to classic, vintage Fenders in most areas except the neck profile. The AmPro necks feel more like a classic Fender neck to me but neck profiles will always be a matter of personal taste. The Player necks have a slightly flatter C-profile and feel thinner front-to-back. The AmPros are deeper, more rounded "shoulders", a classic C-profile. Players are slimmer, AmPro chunkier but neither are on the extreme ends of the slim-chunky spectrum. The nut width is obviously the same. Recommending one neck over the other is rather pointless as neck profiles with always depend on personal taste. Try before you buy!
-Factory setup: You should expect either of these basses to need a setup out of the box (and that includes filing the nut slots).
Personally I think the AmPros are SLIGHTLY better instruments (if you find a good one) but the Players are definitely better value. Both are a bit overpriced compared to other brands though. If I was looking for a P-style bass in these prices ranges I would much rather have a Yamaha BB434 or a Yamaha BBP34. Both are cheaper than Player/AmPro and considerably better instruments IMO. But I totally understand the "Fender vibe" thing. You pay a couple of hundred $ extra for the Fender logo on the headstock but nothing feels QUITE like a good Fender.
It's a shame the Vintera P-basses aren't available with a "modern" nut width. The Vinteras are possibly the best passive P-basses in the entire Fender production range at the moment (IMO) but the wide nut width isn't for everyone.
I've had many of both these models coming through the workshop. I also own a Player + an AmPro I. For what it's worth, these are my personal thoughts on the differences:
-Build quality: More or less the same. The AmPro has composite rods in the neck which makes it more stable and resistant to changes in temperature/humidity. I suspect these rods may also contribute to slightly less noticable dead spots on the AmPros. All Fender basses have dead spots though. The fret ends are generally nicer on the AmPro. I've seen a couple of Players with rather sharp fret ends but nothing 5 minutes with a file can't fix and most of them are fine.
-Fit&finish: More or less the same although I've seen a couple of extremely poor AmPros. The Players seem to be more consistent, or at least just have minor blemishes. When the AmPros are bad they can be REALLY bad.
-Truss rod: Single action on the Players, dual action on the AmPro. This shouldn't really matter unless the neck is flawed or maybe if you plan on using EXTREMELY light gauge strings like Thomastik Jazz Rounds. Ultra low tension strings like these might need a little help from a double action truss rod to get enough relief.
-Wood: The pau ferro Fender use on Player series instruments is rather ugly IMO. I normally like pau ferro but Fender must have gotten a huge amount of bland looking ugly pau ferro for cheap. With MIM Fenders it's maple or nothing for me these days.
-QC: In my experience the Players are more consistent. I've seen some absolutely shocking issues with the AmPros but I will strongly recommend trying before buying with either of these basses as they can vary a lot.
-Pickups: The Player pickup is ok but not great. Perhaps a tiny bit more upper mid bite than a "classic" P-bass pickup and a tiny bit muddier in the lows than the best pickups out there. I've never played a V-Mod II through a full rig, only through a practise amp at the workshop so I can't really comment on that one. I have lots of experience with the original V-Mod pickup though. It doesn't quite have the classic P-bass "bite". It's a slightly smoother take on the P-bass tone. Also very low output and the Alnico II/V mix makes the tone inconsistent across the strings. They've kept the Alnico II/V mix on the V-Mod II so I expect this particular issue may still be present. As for the rest I'm not sure how much difference there is between V-Mod I/II but keep in mind that the original V-Mod was more or less universally disliked. Try before you buy!
-Hardware: I can't stand the tapered tuning shafts on the AmPros. I've experienced several cases of string breakage when loosening/re-tightening the strings for service/setup. The downward pressure seems to lock the windings against each other at the bottom of the shaft, causing them to break at the shaft when bringing the strings back up to pitch. I've never experience breakage when installing brand new strings on an AmPro though. I'm not a huge fan of the AmPro bridges either. The multiple notches in the saddles may seem like a good idea in theory. In real life I never seem to find notches that will both give me an even string spacing AND line up the strings over the pole pieces. If the bass is properly built it shouldn't be necessary to have multiple notches. The Player series tuners are decent but I've seen a couple go bad prematurely which isn't very reassuring. The Player bridges are the classic, basic Fender type but I've heard several complaints about dropping saddles (I've also experienced this on my own Player P).
-The Fender "vibe": AmPros are upgraded, modern Fenders. Whether you like these upgrades is a matter of personal taste. Players are closer to classic, vintage Fenders in most areas except the neck profile. The AmPro necks feel more like a classic Fender neck to me but neck profiles will always be a matter of personal taste. The Player necks have a slightly flatter C-profile and feel thinner front-to-back. The AmPros are deeper, more rounded "shoulders", a classic C-profile. Players are slimmer, AmPro chunkier but neither are on the extreme ends of the slim-chunky spectrum. The nut width is obviously the same. Recommending one neck over the other is rather pointless as neck profiles with always depend on personal taste. Try before you buy!
-Factory setup: You should expect either of these basses to need a setup out of the box (and that includes filing the nut slots).
Personally I think the AmPros are SLIGHTLY better instruments (if you find a good one) but the Players are definitely better value. Both are a bit overpriced compared to other brands though. If I was looking for a P-style bass in these prices ranges I would much rather have a Yamaha BB434 or a Yamaha BBP34. Both are cheaper than Player/AmPro and considerably better instruments IMO. But I totally understand the "Fender vibe" thing. You pay a couple of hundred $ extra for the Fender logo on the headstock but nothing feels QUITE like a good Fender.
It's a shame the Vintera P-basses aren't available with a "modern" nut width. The Vinteras are possibly the best passive P-basses in the entire Fender production range at the moment (IMO) but the wide nut width isn't for everyone.
Thank you for the detailed reply, with which I do agree, as much as my limited experience allows. Which experience is based on my two Pbasses: an 2008 Am.Std with PV63 pickup and an 2017 AmPro I with "Original" pickup. I'm happy with both and find their production quality and QC quite agreeable or even great depending on which part of the bass we're talking about. The 2008 Am.Std has a beefier neck and medium jumbo frets and thus a more old school vibe. I've strung it with LaBella 760FS and have dedicated it to reggae/dub and Motownish tunes. The 2017 AmPro I is strung with Roto nps rounds and is my bass for modern stuff, like funk oriented tracks, for example Jamiroquai, some slapping etc. They both work quite well for their intended genres especially after they had their pickups replaced: the "Original" pup has an aggressive upfront tone and the PV63 is dark and bassy. To my ears.
Given the above and given I'm only an amateur bass player, a third Pbass will serve as a testbed for different strings to get different tone flavours. For example I'd like to string it with Fender 9050M flats, or with SS Rotos for that matter, and see what kind of tone I'd get. I'd certainly like it to be a US-made instrument, for all the reasons you've mentioned and also just because, but of course it costs twice as much.
As mentioned above, I've found a NOS Am.Pro I with RW fretboard (both my basses have maple FBs), which I would prefer to an Am.Pro II as I'm not quite excited about the 5-bolt "sculpted" heel. But it's a substantial investment (€1770 / $1840) so I have to make sure I really want it. That said, NOS Am.Pro I basses have been phased out and are hard to find so perhaps a quick decision is appropriate.
I completely agree with almost everything you said, and what I didn’t agree with I just don’t have the experience you have in order for me to have an opinion.
The fluted tuning shafts have been problematic for me on my E string, I can seem to get it cut to the right length so it doesn’t result in the string winding over itself at the bottom of the shaft. So I have pretty much continual tuning problems on my E string. I know ultimately that’s my problem, not the tuner’s problem, but that’s why I’m not a fan.
The neck however is one of the two most comfortable necks I’ve ever played, the other one being my 2014 American Standard P, which has zero tuning problems.
I bought both used, but in basically brand new condition.
I don’t like the Player P’s because the fretboard edges are “sharp”. For whatever reason, I find the Player Jazz necks quite comfortable, even moreso than MIA Jazz necks. I don’t know to what that difference is attributable. But the Player P necks are never gonna fly for my left hand unless I’m throwing it off a cliff (kidding, they’re not remotely *that* bad). Howrvet, if they made a Player P V, I’d have bought one by now.
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I have both I prefer the am pro II
Those are the difference and the best for each categories:
Tapered tuners MIA
Neck adjustment nut MIM ( kind of pita for the MIA)
Setup, none (loose bridge screws on both when received, do a good setup as told by other tbers)
Pickups MIA are ungrounded polepieces so when the varnish on the poles are gone you hear a noise when you accidentally touch the pole pieces
They both sound like a PBass otherwise
Neck edge rolled on MIA and fret edges job is much better on MIA
Thru body on MIA
Better nut on MIA (looks nicer)
Those are the difference and the best for each categories:
Tapered tuners MIA
Neck adjustment nut MIM ( kind of pita for the MIA)
Setup, none (loose bridge screws on both when received, do a good setup as told by other tbers)
Pickups MIA are ungrounded polepieces so when the varnish on the poles are gone you hear a noise when you accidentally touch the pole pieces
They both sound like a PBass otherwise
Neck edge rolled on MIA and fret edges job is much better on MIA
Thru body on MIA
Better nut on MIA (looks nicer)
I've had no issues so far with the fluted tuning shafts on my Am.Pro I but I've only strung it with standard long scale roundwound strings. There may be a problem of string breakage with certain extra long scale flats, e.g. GHS Precision, when the thick part of the E string will have to wind around the thin shaft.
I own a Player P and think it looks, sounds, and plays fantastic.
Another poster noted that they didn't love the pickup because it has a bit more high mid bite than a typical vintage P pickup. I agree it has this character, but that's my favorite thing about it, so ymmv.
Someone else said they need to adjust their Player's neck every few days, which is not remotely my experience. The neck on mine is quite stable, and while I usually make adjustments when the seasons change, my apartment has the worst climate control. Also, those adjustments are usually quite small, and I could get along fine without them. Also, I find the neck very comfortable, and quite playable.
The bridge is fine, and I honestly can't think of a good reason to upgrade it. The saddle on the g string kept slipping down when I got it in 2019, but a little plumber's tape fixed that immediately, and I haven't had to think about it since.
Personally, given how good and reliable my Player has been, I have s hard time imaging spending an extra $1000 on a Pbass. I have no doubt it will be an upgrade, but I would expect quite diminished returns on that extra investment. Again, ymmv.
Another poster noted that they didn't love the pickup because it has a bit more high mid bite than a typical vintage P pickup. I agree it has this character, but that's my favorite thing about it, so ymmv.
Someone else said they need to adjust their Player's neck every few days, which is not remotely my experience. The neck on mine is quite stable, and while I usually make adjustments when the seasons change, my apartment has the worst climate control. Also, those adjustments are usually quite small, and I could get along fine without them. Also, I find the neck very comfortable, and quite playable.
The bridge is fine, and I honestly can't think of a good reason to upgrade it. The saddle on the g string kept slipping down when I got it in 2019, but a little plumber's tape fixed that immediately, and I haven't had to think about it since.
Personally, given how good and reliable my Player has been, I have s hard time imaging spending an extra $1000 on a Pbass. I have no doubt it will be an upgrade, but I would expect quite diminished returns on that extra investment. Again, ymmv.
I did the same. Upgraded the pups and had fret sprout removed. It was great after that.
I only sold because I prefer a meatier neck.
The Player was a bit shallow front to back for my taste. Otherwise, a real nice instrument and better than the sum of its parts.
That's what I think too! However, in Europe the Am.Pro II Pbasses go for about €2100 /$2180 and this Am.Pro I is already discounted (or "discounted") to €1750 / $1820 from its original price of €2000 / $2080 when it was the current model. Do you think I could ask for further discount?
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+1 on this. I played several examples of each and there was good and bad in both bunches. I found my Pro II only after checking out quite a few basses. For me it was worth the extra $$ but your mileage may vary on this. I keep my basses to the bare minimum and do not buy on a budget in order to afford the best example of a bass I can find.
IMHO better to play before you buy. OP: I can only tell you how I do it. Others opinions will vary of course.:
1. With Fenders, I look most closely at the neck. The amount of bad necks hanging on showroom walls is shameful if you ask me. Even premium models have these problems. ARGHH
2. If that checks out, then I go to the 'tone" of the bass before plugging it in. See if it sounds good without an amp - i.e. sings or has a nice sound compare to the other basses you are considering.
3. I pay less attention to electronics. Those are easily upgraded on Fenders to whatever your heart desires.
I suppose I am trying to say that it seems better to me at least that you look at the "model" less and look more at the actual performance of the basses you can hold and play.
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Only time i ever had to make significant truss rod changes was going from roundwound to standard gauge Labella DTFs or TIs, both which have their own respective differences in tension.
The Player uses Imperial hex keys so I believe the same as MIAs. I just sold mine because I wasn't using it but it was great. What follows is my experience with several MIMS over the years:
However it was marred by Fender's increasingly common shoddy QC: sharp fret ends, fret sprout (a separate issue to the sharp fret ends and something that never happens to Squiers), off-axis nut slots (closer to the fretbpard on the G side), sloppy shielding paint job (which required new shielding). I could swear the bridge was drilled off-axis as well but since bolt-on necks can be angled, the issue resolved itself.
Other than that, very solid instrument with a perfect neck pocket. The pickups are on the bright side with a lean low end but very clear. The hardware is not a lot better than what Squier uses on the Classic Vibes. With its modern specs (narrower nut and flatter radius, thin front to back) it plays easily and with a low action.
MIMs have gotten way better since the early 2000s for sure. Same can be sort of said for MIAs. Seems like both lines had a major upgrade in parts and QC from 2008 onwards. Not perfect, but seems like Fender started to give more hoots about their Mexican line than before.
Love my current Player to death. Just feels so...right.
Having owned an example of the American Standard, Pro I & II, Player's and a very nice Vintera, I can report that you will likely be happy with whichever you choose. They are all great basses, discounting the inevitable lemon here & there.
Personally, it would be wise to go with one of the American Pro models, as the parts, material fit & finish tend to be better than the Player series. Specifically the addition of the reinforcement rods in the neck. The Pro also has a slightly thicker headstock than the others. Those two features help the neck avoid dead spots and improve stability.
Stringing through the body (US models) is a big help when using flatwound strings as it provides a longer distance between the ball-end of the string and the saddle.
If you go with the ProII, play it with your new strings before switching out the pickup. When I bought mine, I planned to switch it out right away, but I'm glad to have waited-- the stock pickup works fabulous with the strings I like (Flats: Chromes, EB Group III, Fender). Absolutely no reason to swap pickups IMO.
The one thing I like best about the Pro II over the previous model is the 6-bolt neck. Not from a playing standpoint (I never play up that far), but because it's so much nicer to handle. When lifting it from the case I always grab it where the neck joins the body-- it's so much nicer than the older version. Anytime it needs to be handled, that cutaway in back makes a big difference.
Hope something there helps
Best of luck with your decision!
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The black one is an American Prof ii, the white and blue one are Players.
The main differences are the neck profile and the pickups.
The American has a more premium feel but the price gap is not justified.
I enjoy playing them all.
For myself, I would have to say no. I don't own an Am Pro II but I own 5 Fenders, 4 are electric, and one ABG. One of the electrics is an Am Performer with the rest being MIM Players. I also swore I would never own a MIM. Then I actually owned one, now I own 3.
The 4 electrics are....
2019 American Performer P/J (bought new, $1400)
2019 Player Precision ( took it in a trade, have $350 in it)
2021 Flamed maple top Player Jazz (blue, bought new, on sale $649)
2022 Flamed maple top player Jazz (green, bought new, on sale $649)
*Note: the Am Performer and the Player Precision have both had pup upgrades.
For the current cost of the Am Pro II and based on what I paid...
I could have gotten the Am Performer and the Player Precision
Or I could have gotten both Jazz basses and the Player Precision.
Or I could have gotten the Am Performer and one of the Player Jazz basses
(Note: Guitar Center will have Player Series basses on sale about every 3 or 4 months. So if you're willing to wait, you can get a Player Series even cheaper. The Jazzes I got for $649 each, 4 months apart and they normally are $879)
The biggest difference for me between the Am Performer and the Players, feel of the neck. The Performer is definitely smoother. The Am Performer body is thinner and more contoured than a Player body, a little lighter too. And I suspect the same about a Am Pro II body vs a Player body. And the Am Pro II has rolled fretboard edges, the Player doesn't. How important is that to you? To me, it's nice, but not worth the difference between a Player vs a Am Performer, much less a Player vs a Am Pro II
Are the Am basses nicer instruments than the MIMs? Definitely. I can feel it just picking up my Am Performer over one of my MIM Players. But other than those few differences, I sound as good or bad on one as I do the other. If you took the Am Performer from me it wouldn't make a difference in my playing.
My rotation based on what I play the most is...
2021 Flamed maple top Player Jazz (blue)
2019 American Performer P/J
2022 Flamed maple top player Jazz (green)
2019 Player Precision
Or perhaps Lakland. In my experience (and humble opinion) Lakland instruments are very consistent in quality and much better made than Fender at very similar prices.
