Fender Custom Shop '62 Pups in a Squier CV 70's

[Basslice]

I bought a Squier CV 70’s P Bass this spring. I like it a lot. It sounds pretty good amped, but while recording, I started to notice a lot of weird sound artifacts. Uneven sound and tone. So in a first for me, I ordered a set of Fender Custom Shop ’62 P Pickups.

I haven’t ever swapped pickups before, but compared to the amp teardowns I have done, it was a breeze. I also bought some CTS pots, Switchcraft jack and a real Sprague Orange Drop 0.047 cap.

Upon taking it apart, I realized just how junky the original Squire components were (see attached pictures). The volume and tone pots were mismatched, the cap was some crappy thing of questionable origin. The soldering work was substandard. The ¼ jack was junk and would not have lasted too much longer.

I had to drill out the pickguard and the knobs which were a mismatch of metric and standard. I soldered all the new components in and reassembled. Mistake. The new pickups sat way too low. I took it all apart again and pulled the foam from the back of the Squire pickups and stuck them on the new pickups. They were about 4 mm thicker. That made all the difference.

I put it back together again, re-strung it and tuned up. Then reset the pickup heights to ~5 to 7/64ths. I had recorded some test patterns before and after. The tone of the Squier pups was unbalanced and sharp. The new tone with the Custom ’62 was pretty nice. I expected a difference, but am still very happy with the new sound. Pretty much a Fender P Bass now. The pickups cost me $130 so now I have $560 into this bass. The Fender American Original '60s Precision Bass that has the Vintage ’63 pups costs $2,000. The Squier was made in Indonesia, but now with the new guts, there is not really any difference from a Fender. It looks and plays great.

 

[Basslice]

p.s. The pics of the pots and jack are New CTS (front component in my hand) and Old (back in shots).

 

[JW56789]

I followed exactly the same path.

Usually, less expensive MSRP's will involve going cheap on the stuff you can't see, so this is why a lot of inexpensive basses have solid finishes, and you open them up and find those itty-bitty foreign pots with a flimsy jack, and OK soldering with cheap wire.

I bought a Squier James Johnston Signature Jazz Bass with an eye to updating the electronics and the looks. It was OK, but I bought it as a 'project' bass and I was off to the races.

I eventually bought a used but like-new set of Fender Yosemite Jazz pickups. I got to thinking 'what happens to all those pickups that guys just yanked out of new basses so they could put in their preferred pickups?' So that's where these came from, and the guy had left plenty wire when he removed them, even stripped them with a little length sticking out perfectly ready to go. Sixty bucks, half the price of brand new, for like new. Got some CTS 250 pots, a Super Jack, a good orange drop .047 cap, and those foam risers with the springs embedded, all from Stew Mac.

Jeff at Corner Music here in Nashville did the switchout (I went to a volume/fader/tone layout) and it's perfect, and eliminated the price-point shortcoming from the electronics, and I'd be hard pressed to get rid of it, considering the jump in capability it got for a relatively small budget.

That's the great things about Squiers: The Fender aftermarket, whether OEM Fender parts or those made by lots and lots of other companies, are often drop-in replacements (BUT: Fenders vary over the years and by where they were built, so ALWAYS double check what you're going to replace with the dimensions of what you want to put in ! ! ! )

 

[LoveThatBass]

• I bought a Squier CV 70’s P Bass this spring. I like it a lot. It sounds pretty good amped, but while recording, I started to notice a lot of weird sound artifacts. Uneven sound and tone. So in a first for me, I ordered a set of Fender Custom Shop ’62 P Pickups.

I haven’t ever swapped pickups before, but compared to the amp teardowns I have done, it was a breeze. I also bought some CTS pots, Switchcraft jack and a real Sprague Orange Drop 0.047 cap.

Upon taking it apart, I realized just how junky the original Squire components were (see attached pictures). The volume and tone pots were mismatched, the cap was some crappy thing of questionable origin. The soldering work was substandard. The ¼ jack was junk and would not have lasted too much longer.

I had to drill out the pickguard and the knobs which were a mismatch of metric and standard. I soldered all the new components in and reassembled. Mistake. The new pickups sat way too low. I took it all apart again and pulled the foam from the back of the Squire pickups and stuck them on the new pickups. They were about 4 mm thicker. That made all the difference.

I put it back together again, re-strung it and tuned up. Then reset the pickup heights to ~5 to 7/64ths. I had recorded some test patterns before and after. The tone of the Squier pups was unbalanced and sharp. The new tone with the Custom ’62 was pretty nice. I expected a difference, but am still very happy with the new sound. Pretty much a Fender P Bass now. The pickups cost me $130 so now I have $560 into this bass. The Fender American Original '60s Precision Bass that has the Vintage ’63 pups costs $2,000. The Squier was made in Indonesia, but now with the new guts, there is not really any difference from a Fender. It looks and plays great.

View attachment 4514611View attachment 4514609View attachment 4514610View attachment 4514608View attachment 4514607View attachment 4514606

Beautiful bass you have there. Yep, I also put custom shop 62’s in my Fender Player series P and love the tone

 

[C Stone]

Good call, I found the Classic Vibe 70's pickups were useable but not as full as I had hoped, a little thin (not very hot). Swapped them out for Fender 62's and went ahead with new Switchcraft jack, cloth pushback wiring, cts pots and an orange drop cap, very happy with the tone I am getting out of them.

 

[andare]

The stock electronics are fine. Full-size Alpha pots are what you find in every pedal out there. The cap doesn't matter as long as it's not a ceramic disc and the value is what you need. They have a wide tolerance so there's no way to know what your new Sprague tests at.
Agreed on cheap jacks. They work until they don't.

What difference have you noticed between the pickups?

 

[Basslice]

The stock electronics are fine. Full-size Alpha pots are what you find in every pedal out there. The cap doesn't matter as long as it's not a ceramic disc and the value is what you need. They have a wide tolerance so there's no way to know what your new Sprague tests at.
Agreed on cheap jacks. They work until they don't.

What difference have you noticed between the pickups?

It was a fun upgrade. I would have had it all done and ready between coming home from work and dinner had it not been for the pickup height thing.

I was already having problems with the jack. I replaced the pots, jack and cap because I was already in there and it took me an extra 15 minutes. I really don't know how good or bad the Alpha pots are, but if holding them in my hand and looking at construction is any indication, there is a difference. I use CTS in my amp repairs. The cap? Again, I don't know what they used other than it is cheap. I haven't really run into any polyester tone cap failures ever, regardless of manufacturer, again, I was in there.

The wire gauge and quality and the solder job from the factory was pretty bad. When I took the pickguard off and removed the pups, two wires fell off. So I replaced all the wiring except the bridge ground wire. I can trust my solder job. I hate intermittent contact failures. My QC is pretty good. Like I have said in other posts about Squier and other cheap instruments, these days the only difference between them and more expensive products is the components and amount of time and effort put into the final product. No one or region holds a monopoly on the ability to make good gear.

I will post some sound clips later.

 

[Basslice]

I just looked again. The pots I removed were JS not Alpha. Just looked at some online pricing.
JS 250k Potentiometers: $0.69 each
CTS 250k Potentiometers: $5.00 to $6.00 each

Like all components, they get cheaper when you buy in bulk. But lets say you manufacture 500 guitars, each with two pots. Use CTS and that is $5,000 in parts. Use JS pots and the same batch cost you $1,400. That is a lot of cash considering 95% of the buyers will never know the difference until repair time in the future. It is all about unit volume and margins.

 

[Basslice]

So here is my update. Sound is very subjective. Many of us know this and the rest need to learn. There is no quick and easy measure of how sound can be changed and manipulated. The pros always tell people, “listen to your ears”. Then many of the same people use a host of adjectives to describe what they hear – as if it makes even the slightest contribution.

We all wish there was a quantitative metric or visual scientific method to universally characterize sound and tone. It doesn’t exist.

Now I put in some new pickups in my bass. The bass sounds better to me. But how do I convey that to the masses? I could post a sound file, but after all the compression and trickery that it takes to share a file, it will never sound like it does here in my studio.

Here is what I will do. I will post images from the DAW and from a frequency analyzer. I hope it will be clear that there is a difference after changing the pickups. How those differences are perceived it a completely different issue.

It sounds better!

 

[Basslice]

Here is the basic experiment. I played and recorded an open E note on the bass before and after the pickup change. The gain settings were unchanged. No digital trickery. Same strings, action and pickup height. The only things that are different are the Squier pups and Fender ‘62s (and new pots, wires, and cap).

So here is the waveform from the Squier pickup (blue) vs the ’62 Custom Fender (green). I used to do a lot of NMR (nuclear magnetic resonance) experiments in the days before complete automation. Without getting all quantum physics on y’all, let me say that there is a thing called a Free Induction Decay (FID) in an NMR experiment. The nuclear spin decay data look very much like sound decay waveforms. A skilled person can tell a lot by looking at the overall shape of an FID before it is transformed using a Fourier Transform that takes the time axis and converts it into the frequency domain. Same is true for a sound file. A trained person can see the “purity” of a signal, whether it is a pure frequency or more complex. You can also see if there are significant phasing and decay problems.

All Geeking-Out aside, I can clearly see that the waveforms are different. The blues has better sustain, but is lacking a symmetric decay pattern. The green is more symmetric and has a decent decay profile.

I then ran the same signals through a FFT and frequency analysis. Sure enough, the Fender has a much better defined set of harmonics and overtones. Much more sensitive and accurate. The Squier, not so much. Now a lot of the more complex signal in both are at pretty low levels (<-60Db). Still, it is the little things that our brains perceive as major sound differences. I will not pretend that I can look at a frequency analysis and tell you how it sounds. When people say they can, I call “Bullschzit”. However, you can tell a lot and see actual differences.

What does it sound like? Well the Squier sounds more distorted and has a weird ring to it. Ever hit a high tension steel cable with a stick? You will hear something that sounds like an old Star Wars or BSG phaser “phwew” twang. I hear that in the Squier pickup and it is absent in the Fender.

Conclusion: The $130 dollar upgrade made the bass sound better. Especially when it is being recorded direct. As I said in my first post, the Squier pups sounded pretty ok through a loud amp, but I was unhappy when recording and mixing. Well-worth the expense to me.

 

[bassliner50]

Good call, I found the Classic Vibe 70's pickups were useable but not as full as I had hoped, a little thin (not very hot). Swapped them out for Fender 62's and went ahead with new Switchcraft jack, cloth pushback wiring, cts pots and an orange drop cap, very happy with the tone I am getting out of them.

Fender Original '62? Because that one is far and away my favorite.

 

[Killing Floor]

It’s your bass. Make it how you like. Enjoy.

 

[BassFalcon]

Congrats!!! New pickups can make a world of difference. I started modding my 94 mim jazz about 15 years ago. I don’t remember the exact pickups but They were fender custom shop, 60-something or other, and overwound. I absolutely love them. Surprisingly when I opened it up it had good pots and cloth wiring and all that. It also has a 7 1/4 in radius fretboard that I’ve emailed customer service about and they have no idea how that neck found it’s way on that bass from the factory because that’s a very unusual fretboard radius, but it did and I love it.

 

[JW56789]

The Yosemites vs. the stock Squiers in the JJ: The originals were OK, probably would have left them had I not found a great replacement at a great deal. The Yosemites sound to me far more modern in tone, more of a hi-fi, active kind of vibe, maybe someone can confirm or correct me, but they sound to me more like ceramic magnets.

At least two of my Squiers came with those itty-bitty foreign pots, Jeff had to enlarge the pickguard holes slightly to fit the CTS installs, and the jack was dollar-store parts.

Maybe this is an example, but the other day my Squier Precision Five suddenly became intermittent in output. The jack felt a bit wobbly so I pulled the pickguard to check. SO . . . . I found the jack was a bit loose, so I rotated it back to not strain the wiring, but the prongs were fine, so that wasn't why. Then I saw it. Squier had painted the cavity with that black non-conduct paint OK, but the pickup ground . . . . was a wire terminating in a spade terminal screwed into the floor of the cavity, and the screw was backing out (!). Snugged that up, we're back in business. And it's a great bass, at least as good as a 'real' Fender P5 in a practical sense.

As I said, they save money where you don't see it, and they all do it. At least, pots and the other under-the-hood bits are inexpensive to upgrade to much better parts.

 

[C Stone]

Fender Original '62? Because that one is far and away my favorite.

Nice yep those are the ones. I liked them so much I bought another set for a recent build using a CV 60's Oly white P body and a new Fender MIM neck.

 

[BassFalcon]

Here is the basic experiment. I played and recorded an open E note on the bass before and after the pickup change. The gain settings were unchanged. No digital trickery. Same strings, action and pickup height. The only things that are different are the Squier pups and Fender ‘62s (and new pots, wires, and cap).

So here is the waveform from the Squier pickup (blue) vs the ’62 Custom Fender (green). I used to do a lot of NMR (nuclear magnetic resonance) experiments in the days before complete automation. Without getting all quantum physics on y’all, let me say that there is a thing called a Free Induction Decay (FID) in an NMR experiment. The nuclear spin decay data look very much like sound decay waveforms. A skilled person can tell a lot by looking at the overall shape of an FID before it is transformed using a Fourier Transform that takes the time axis and converts it into the frequency domain. Same is true for a sound file. A trained person can see the “purity” of a signal, whether it is a pure frequency or more complex. You can also see if there are significant phasing and decay problems.

View attachment 4515607

All Geeking-Out aside, I can clearly see that the waveforms are different. The blues has better sustain, but is lacking a symmetric decay pattern. The green is more symmetric and has a decent decay profile.

I then ran the same signals through a FFT and frequency analysis. Sure enough, the Fender has a much better defined set of harmonics and overtones. Much more sensitive and accurate. The Squier, not so much. Now a lot of the more complex signal in both are at pretty low levels (<-60Db). Still, it is the little things that our brains perceive as major sound differences. I will not pretend that I can look at a frequency analysis and tell you how it sounds. When people say they can, I call “Bullschzit”. However, you can tell a lot and see actual differences.
View attachment 4515608

What does it sound like? Well the Squier sounds more distorted and has a weird ring to it. Ever hit a high tension steel cable with a stick? You will hear something that sounds like an old Star Wars or BSG phaser “phwew” twang. I hear that in the Squier pickup and it is absent in the Fender.

Conclusion: The $130 dollar upgrade made the bass sound better. Especially when it is being recorded direct. As I said in my first post, the Squier pups sounded pretty ok through a loud amp, but I was unhappy when recording and mixing. Well-worth the expense to me.

Just an FYI type of aside for future experiments, I belonged to The Guild Of American Luthiers about 15 years ago and some member published a study comparing sustain of set neck, bolt-on, and neck through by taking a neck through and plucking it many times and running it through the same types of analyzers you’ve got going on here, then sawing it off and bolting it on with a shim to compensate for kerf, and then gluing the joint together. Here’s the part that may interest you, to ensure repeatability of plucking and not having a human element taint that data they used Christmas tree tinsel, I forget if they tied it on the string or just wrapped it over but whomever did the study figured out that the tensile strength of the tinsel gave out at about the same tension as a decent pluck would apply. Forgot to mention that they had a machine to pull the tinsel till it broke, again to remove human influence as much as possible

 

[CallMeAl]

I have a modified Squier; new neck, new harness, new bridge. I was holding out on the pickup cause frankly I thought it sounded pretty good. I finally got a wild hair to change the pickup; went with a Duncan SPB1, but the CS62 was high on my wishlist. Not a massive difference but I can tell. More clarity in the lows and more even sound across strings.

I love modding. Even if it’s only things you notice, it’s lots of fun and brings you closer to the instrument.

here’s my bad boy, my main squeeze-

 

[Fender_Bender]

Don’t throw out those old foam mousepads people. They are perfect for use under the pups.

 

[dbsfgyd1]

I bought a Squier CV 70’s P Bass this spring. I like it a lot. It sounds pretty good amped, but while recording, I started to notice a lot of weird sound artifacts. Uneven sound and tone. So in a first for me, I ordered a set of Fender Custom Shop ’62 P Pickups.

I haven’t ever swapped pickups before, but compared to the amp teardowns I have done, it was a breeze. I also bought some CTS pots, Switchcraft jack and a real Sprague Orange Drop 0.047 cap.

Upon taking it apart, I realized just how junky the original Squire components were (see attached pictures). The volume and tone pots were mismatched, the cap was some crappy thing of questionable origin. The soldering work was substandard. The ¼ jack was junk and would not have lasted too much longer.

I had to drill out the pickguard and the knobs which were a mismatch of metric and standard. I soldered all the new components in and reassembled. Mistake. The new pickups sat way too low. I took it all apart again and pulled the foam from the back of the Squire pickups and stuck them on the new pickups. They were about 4 mm thicker. That made all the difference.

I put it back together again, re-strung it and tuned up. Then reset the pickup heights to ~5 to 7/64ths. I had recorded some test patterns before and after. The tone of the Squier pups was unbalanced and sharp. The new tone with the Custom ’62 was pretty nice. I expected a difference, but am still very happy with the new sound. Pretty much a Fender P Bass now. The pickups cost me $130 so now I have $560 into this bass. The Fender American Original '60s Precision Bass that has the Vintage ’63 pups costs $2,000. The Squier was made in Indonesia, but now with the new guts, there is not really any difference from a Fender. It looks and plays great.

View attachment 4514611View attachment 4514609View attachment 4514610View attachment 4514608View attachment 4514607View attachment 4514606

Replacement 62s were a good choice. I bought my son age 12 a MIM JB back in 96, hoping either deciding he’d rather do something else, or he’d get really good and want a MIA Fender. Either wayI was going to get it back and my play was to do just what you did. I installed replacement 62s the day after he bought his own MIA JB.

What a difference!! It was light with a really fast neck and had a the voice of angels (that happened to have really low voices). Later he bough a MIA Pj and swapped me for it,

 

[Clark W]

I bought a Squier CV 70’s P Bass this spring. I like it a lot. It sounds pretty good amped, but while recording, I started to notice a lot of weird sound artifacts. Uneven sound and tone. So in a first for me, I ordered a set of Fender Custom Shop ’62 P Pickups.

I haven’t ever swapped pickups before, but compared to the amp teardowns I have done, it was a breeze. I also bought some CTS pots, Switchcraft jack and a real Sprague Orange Drop 0.047 cap.

Upon taking it apart, I realized just how junky the original Squire components were (see attached pictures). The volume and tone pots were mismatched, the cap was some crappy thing of questionable origin. The soldering work was substandard. The ¼ jack was junk and would not have lasted too much longer.

I had to drill out the pickguard and the knobs which were a mismatch of metric and standard. I soldered all the new components in and reassembled. Mistake. The new pickups sat way too low. I took it all apart again and pulled the foam from the back of the Squire pickups and stuck them on the new pickups. They were about 4 mm thicker. That made all the difference.

I put it back together again, re-strung it and tuned up. Then reset the pickup heights to ~5 to 7/64ths. I had recorded some test patterns before and after. The tone of the Squier pups was unbalanced and sharp. The new tone with the Custom ’62 was pretty nice. I expected a difference, but am still very happy with the new sound. Pretty much a Fender P Bass now. The pickups cost me $130 so now I have $560 into this bass. The Fender American Original '60s Precision Bass that has the Vintage ’63 pups costs $2,000. The Squier was made in Indonesia, but now with the new guts, there is not really any difference from a Fender. It looks and plays great.

The FCS '62 P Pup is a great pup.