Doug Parent
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Fender Custom Shop Insanity
- Thread starter The Bass Clef
- Start date
Another thought - the CS specialises in making exact replicas of specific old instruments: surely this means that they are intended to be guitar-shaped objects for the collector, rather than instruments meant to be played? The moment you put a new ding on your Geddy Lee replica, it no longer matches the original and hence loses the whole point? Crazy, man!
Fenders are great for what they are - Leo is IMO the Henry Ford of the electric guitar/bass: he didn't invent much, but he designed superb workhorse instruments that did the job they were made for in a way that could be production lined simply and effectively at (before the custom shop got their craftsmen on the job) a reasonable price point - this makes him both a great engineer and a great businessman. But Fenders are nonetheless Fords, not Ferraris.
Fenders are great for what they are - Leo is IMO the Henry Ford of the electric guitar/bass: he didn't invent much, but he designed superb workhorse instruments that did the job they were made for in a way that could be production lined simply and effectively at (before the custom shop got their craftsmen on the job) a reasonable price point - this makes him both a great engineer and a great businessman. But Fenders are nonetheless Fords, not Ferraris.
+1
It's no different with cars, houses, boats, airplanes, vacations, etc.
I own a Fender Custom Shop Jazz (it's the second one I have owned), a USA Lakland Duck Dunn, and a Mike Lull P4. Did I buy them because they were expensive? No. I bought them because those were the basses I liked and wanted, and I could afford it. That's really all there is to it.
I'm not rich, and I'm not poor. I'm somewhere in the middle, living a comfortable happy life as a professional civil engineer. That career affords me some "play money" to goof around with and buy toys (music gear, motorcycles, boats, left-handed nostril inhalers that glow in the dark with your State motto on it, a fur sink, an electric dog polisher, etc, etc.)
If I didn't have as much play money, I would buy less expensive stuff. I would still play bass...I would just have less expensive music gear.
Regarding comparing the cost of vintage basses with the cost of new custom shop basses, I really don't care about that comparison. It means nothing to me. If I see a vintage bass that I want, I will buy it. If I see a brand new custom shop bass that I want, I will buy it. How their prices compare to each other doesn't even enter into my selection process.
We are all doing the best we can, and affording what we can. It's not what we play, it's that we play! Whether you rock out with a $500 bass or a $5000 bass, you are still rocking out and having fun in life! And for me, having fun and being happy is the only thing that really matters.
Doug Parent
Supporting Member
+1
We are all doing the best we can, and affording what we can. It's not what we play, it's that we play! Whether you rock out with a $500 bass or a $5000 bass, you are still rocking out and having fun in life! And for me, having fun and being happy is the only thing that really matters.
pressing the LIKE button.
Bingo!
IMO, there seems to be alot of folks who believe that it's the seller who sets the price. It isn't. It's the buying market who sets the price. Sure, the seller sets an "asking" price, but it's the buying market who will determine what an item will sell for, based, as Os just stated, on what it is worth to the buyer.
So don't blame Fender for high prices for custom shop basses. Blame................US!
BassHappy
Supporting Member
Wow, very enlightening post, I must say. Thanks for that - really enjoyed reading it. Thanks so much for speaking so candidly - it really made me think.....And before I express my feelings on this - I too would agree wholeheartedly - if the perception of mojo adds value for someone else - I certainly don't see anything wrong with that either.
This is really hard to talk about and put into words and I know I risk insulting most if not all of the members on TB. If so, I apologize in advance and remember, take this with a grain of salt - this is just me. Wacky weird me.
I have always kind of been a "vibe" guy. That sixth sense you have that kind of kicks in when you play a pre-owned instrument. Some used, older or vintage instruments simply seem kind of creepy to me. Sometimes, I can't plug into the good energy of the instrument no matter what it's reputation, and maybe that is simply my short coming. I don't think I am more overly sensitive than the next guy - but more often that not - a vintage instrument, regardless of price or stature - just seems like a loser to me.
In those cases, I don't think any amount of love and pampering from me is going to change that. It's like I don't have any reason to be subject to the hard times and bad energy that this instrument has been subjected to. It's not going to improve my playing or songwriting, and it's certainly not going to inspire me on any level.
There is kind of a thing about drag energy - you know - always try in your life to surround yourself with people who pull you up - not people who try and pull you down. The closest I can come is to say that in some crazy way basses are somehow kind of like that for me.
For me, older instruments belonging a previous owner or a number of previous owners - there was almost always a sense of stigma about them. When I checked them out - maybe the vibe was OK overall, but something dark seemed to be lurking deep within. It wasn't an alluring or mysterious kind of dark, it was simply a bad vibe feeling in the pit of my stomach.
For the record, I realize that I am doing a horrible job of explaining this, but in my naivety and lack of fear, I trudge on...and I am hoping that at least one poor soul on TB can relate to what I have to say. Go ahead, fire away - I suppose I deserve it for being completely honest.
For these reasons, and probably a few others - I always felt it best to take my chances with owning and breaking in new instruments as much as possible. I like to be the captain of the vibe on the instruments I choose to play. Maybe it is simply the OCD control freak in me that always wants to be sure and christen them my way from birth - and inject them with good vibe, positive energy and my own infectious spirit and work ethic.
Maybe one day I will find a vintage instrument that completely devastates me and I will spring for it - been waiting for that day for many years....But so far, to buy a vintage instrument, or even a relic - well - if you understand the above - you will understand why it is not for me.
Excuse the self importance and all of the other shortcomings of this post. Kind of like therapy for me in a rather bizarre way.
- Jul 3, 2004
- 1,300
- 641
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist: Ernie Ball MusicMan Guitars
The Rich are different.
Someone is buying these basses...
Just like Million Dollar Bras...
It's just not me cuz, I'm not rich. But that's okay
(don't need a bra either)
Someone is buying these basses...
Just like Million Dollar Bras...
It's just not me cuz, I'm not rich. But that's okay
(don't need a bra either)
Personally, I'm thrilled that the CS instruments are going through the roof. I bought a CS '63 Jazz (Candy Apple Red, of course) back when they were less than a couple grand and maybe it's worth more now. Only dilemma is the '63 was purchased because my '68 Telecaster had risen in value enough that I didn't want to risk losing/damaging it on a gig. With CS instruments over $5,000, now what, Squires for everyone? I agree, this is nuts.
My point is such...the older basses were what they were given the timeframe..a guy just said his 64 had a 5 piece body..clearly there were budgets and margins bac
k in the day as there are today...its business...You cant tell me that the quality was better back then...a 5 piece body proves it...now folks are clammoring to buy what was back then a squire of sorts in todays standards for thousands of dollars yet questioning the pricepoint of todays hand built instruments... Yes $8000 is over inflated be it fender or fodera
k in the day as there are today...its business...You cant tell me that the quality was better back then...a 5 piece body proves it...now folks are clammoring to buy what was back then a squire of sorts in todays standards for thousands of dollars yet questioning the pricepoint of todays hand built instruments... Yes $8000 is over inflated be it fender or fodera
I would never pay over 8 grand for a Fender- I could get a Fodera's Matt Garrison standard for about that price, and to me there's no contest there.
But if Fender can sell them, more power to them.
But if Fender can sell them, more power to them.
Bingo!
IMO, there seems to be alot of folks who believe that it's the seller who sets the price. It isn't. It's the buying market who sets the price. Sure, the seller sets an "asking" price, but it's the buying market who will determine what an item will sell for, based, as Os just stated, on what it is worth to the buyer.
So don't blame Fender for high prices for custom shop basses. Blame................US!
Away with your common sense! We shall have none of it!
The only thing it saves you is shopping around for a good '72. Add some depreciation on the CS in a year or two and they'll be worth about the same.
The only thing it saves you is shopping around for a good '72. Add some depreciation on the CS in a year or two and they'll be worth about the same.
I don't know, man. I have played a LOT of awful 70s Fender basses. (Not saying all are of course.) To me, the CS would be worth more.
This is my theory on the economy in general. Not many people are talking about it (at least its not a mainstream conversation yet) but our money has lost its buying power. The cost of some things has gotten ridiculous i.e dining out, vehicles. Is it any surprise really? The only saving grace is that other countries have devalued their currencies too.
Didn't Fender just have a 30% increase in the CS instruments last year?
I just don't think a CS passive bass is going to sound any better than a US or vintage instrument so the value is lost on me once you hit $3k. I had a Sadowsky and the quality was evident. It was super light and stayed in tune. I can see paying the $$ for that kind of quality and the extra cost of the electronics.
Maybe they are rising in price so Fender can get a clear margin between the new Squier Custom shop thats soon to be opened?
Away with your common sense! We shall have none of it!
LOL! Yeah, you're right TF. I should have known better!!
We are absolutely not in a "hyperinfaltionary period" right now. Not by any measurable economic standard. If you think so, you have no idea what hyperinflation really looks like. Yes, we are experiencing a decline in the buying power of the American dollar. That is to be expected. You can't outsource all of your production overseas without losing buying power.
What is really happening with things like the Fender Custom shop is that we are seeing an expansion of businesses that sell high priced luxury goods that are catered to the super wealthy. The same thing is happening in all sectors of the economy. As the middle class in America continues to decline, we see a lot more poverty, but also a lot more money at the top. One percent of the US population has a net worth over 5 million dollars. There are 300 million people in the US, so this means that there are 3 million potential customers for insanely priced custom shop instruments. To these customers, a $5000 guitar is chump change. They can buy a dozen of them without even flinching, and they do.
And that's just in the US. We are seeing a rapid expansion in the growth of markets that cater to the new super wealthy all over the world. You can expect to see more and more businesses selling highly priced boutique goods that are targeted specifically to these emerging markets. It's a very common trend right now. Fender is just cashing in like everyone else is. There may be a few regular folks who save up to buy these kinds of instruments, but that's not really their intended customer base. There are A LOT of people who can actually afford them.
As far as the whole vintage vs new thing goes, many people just don't want to deal with the used market. It's kind of a mess out there for anyone who isn't knowledgeable about vintage instruments. There are fakes, scammers, and a lot of sub-par guitars that get sold with a $10,000 price tag just because of the manufacturing date. Not to mention the fact that this stuff isn't always available locally, so you have to trust ebay or private sellers. With Fender CS, you at least know what you are getting. For most people, that convenience makes all of the difference.
What is really happening with things like the Fender Custom shop is that we are seeing an expansion of businesses that sell high priced luxury goods that are catered to the super wealthy. The same thing is happening in all sectors of the economy. As the middle class in America continues to decline, we see a lot more poverty, but also a lot more money at the top. One percent of the US population has a net worth over 5 million dollars. There are 300 million people in the US, so this means that there are 3 million potential customers for insanely priced custom shop instruments. To these customers, a $5000 guitar is chump change. They can buy a dozen of them without even flinching, and they do.
And that's just in the US. We are seeing a rapid expansion in the growth of markets that cater to the new super wealthy all over the world. You can expect to see more and more businesses selling highly priced boutique goods that are targeted specifically to these emerging markets. It's a very common trend right now. Fender is just cashing in like everyone else is. There may be a few regular folks who save up to buy these kinds of instruments, but that's not really their intended customer base. There are A LOT of people who can actually afford them.
As far as the whole vintage vs new thing goes, many people just don't want to deal with the used market. It's kind of a mess out there for anyone who isn't knowledgeable about vintage instruments. There are fakes, scammers, and a lot of sub-par guitars that get sold with a $10,000 price tag just because of the manufacturing date. Not to mention the fact that this stuff isn't always available locally, so you have to trust ebay or private sellers. With Fender CS, you at least know what you are getting. For most people, that convenience makes all of the difference.
