This is precisely the reason I am wary of used "Fenders" and "Gibsons", in particular: without 100% expert knowledge, you could be badly ripped off. However, how do you even know your "Custom Shop Fender" is truly what it purports to be - they, too, are faked from time to time? Especially when the real thing is now so expensive that it's worth the trouble for the dishonest to fake them. Furthermore, Fender hasn't helped by making a slew of fake-aged instruments which, with just a little "adjustment", could be passed off as real vintage instruments to the unwitting. I really have a big problem with this - I prefer my instruments to have real dings from living a real life!
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Fender Custom Shop Insanity
- Thread starter The Bass Clef
- Start date
This is precisely the reason I am wary of used "Fenders" and "Gibsons", in particular: without 100% expert knowledge, you could be badly ripped off. However, how do you even know your "Custom Shop Fender" is truly what it purports to be - they, too, are faked from time to time? Especially when the real thing is now so expensive that it's worth the trouble for the dishonest to fake them. Furthermore, Fender hasn't helped by making a slew of fake-aged instruments which, with just a little "adjustment", could be passed off as real vintage instruments to the unwitting. I really have a big problem with this - I prefer my instruments to have real dings from living a real life!
If you are buying new from an authorized dealer, this should never be an issue. But this is just more of a reason why buying used instruments is so problematic for a lot of people. And I agree, all these vintage reissues are just making them easier to fake. I'm not blaming Fender, though. It's not for me, but if someone wants to buy a road worn guitar with fake aging, more power to them. As long as it's advertised as such, I don't have a problem with it. Real collectors and aficionados can still tell the real deal from an impostor. That's just not most people.
- Apr 6, 2013
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I have no issue with a luthier-built instrument being expensive, considering the hours of hands-on work implied.
Personally, I would never buy a Fender CS, because I know that a big chunk of the price is determined by the presence of the logo. I'd rather go for a lesser known builder of equal quality (there are plenty around). I can see the point of resale value, but I've only sold one bass and regretted it, I only buy what I know I will keep.
I've tried many CS basses: some where good, some were exceptional, a couple were poor.
None were worth the money, according to my personal use and preferences.
Also I would never buy a relic instrument: a convincing relic job involves a lot of hours by a highly skilled luthier. I see no reason to pay the price of those hours for something that ultimately is fake and serves no practical use (I consider "wear" on the neck an exception, that does serve a purpose).
Just my opinion, as an owner of many custom made basses (no Fenders).
Personally, I would never buy a Fender CS, because I know that a big chunk of the price is determined by the presence of the logo. I'd rather go for a lesser known builder of equal quality (there are plenty around). I can see the point of resale value, but I've only sold one bass and regretted it, I only buy what I know I will keep.
I've tried many CS basses: some where good, some were exceptional, a couple were poor.
None were worth the money, according to my personal use and preferences.
Also I would never buy a relic instrument: a convincing relic job involves a lot of hours by a highly skilled luthier. I see no reason to pay the price of those hours for something that ultimately is fake and serves no practical use (I consider "wear" on the neck an exception, that does serve a purpose).
Just my opinion, as an owner of many custom made basses (no Fenders).
I'm seeing a lot of comments about "what's the big deal with vintage?" Wooden musical instruments mellow with time if they are played. If built well, they sound better the more they are played. Link Removed
However, Fender disagrees, a little bit. http://fenderbassplayer.com/80-article/91-is-vintage-better-than-new
However, Fender disagrees, a little bit. http://fenderbassplayer.com/80-article/91-is-vintage-better-than-new
There,s an old saying " If you want to see how much a man wants something take it away from him".... or in this case just price it high ....What a bunch of whiner,s...Lots of people told me i was Nuts for paying $2700 for my 09 Custom Shop "64 Closet Classic" Sounds like a good investment so far a little jump in $$$$ Value already thanks Fender for making this Bass available to me.....My 2000 USA Jazz was a beautiful $1000 Chevy but my Custom Shop is my Awesome Cadillac.......Hey Sactobass i agree 100% with You well said......
Are CS nice for sure.
This has always been my problem with Fender.
If the best Factory made Jazz costs $2000.00.
Why does a CS cost four times the price ?
Same bass. same wood, same everything.
Only relic finish, custom pickups, custom neck profile.
It's crazy.
Here's the deal...not every piece of gear is made to be in your price range, whatever it is. It's pretty arrogant to believe that everything should be in your price range, and it's even more arrogant to believe that nobody should ever pay what people ask for the real expensive stuff. I'm sick of these "I'm smart and you're stupid" threads on here.
Nothing in your quote above even ran through my mind when I started this thread. It's not about my price range. It's about what what the customer is getting for the money. And one way to point that out was to show that the Custom Shop's pricing is so out of whack now, they charge more for their replicas than the real deal. If you take what I said and thought I meant, "I'm smart and you're stupid" I don't know what to tell ya. It wasn't meant that way.
My original 72pbass on the left that I paid $275 for in 1972.Dont think I would pay $8000 now.
Your original '72 P-Bass came with a bound and block inlay Jazz neck? That would be very rare. Beautiful bass by the way.
I understand what the OP means when he thinks that a replica shouldn't be worth more than the original "collectable" or "vintage" item. Obviously, though, to some people it is worth the money to get a particular dream bass made for them. I understand that, too. So, what's the bog deal? Either you would part with the big dollars for your dream bass, or you'd rather have an original. That's assuming you's want either of the two, of course.
The only way I could see anyone getting "upset" is if someone really wanted a CS Fender and the price was more than they could afford. Yeah, boo hoo.
I'd love a Shelby Mustang more than any car on the planet. I can't afford one. I don't go around saying that the car isn't worth the asking price, though. Just my perspective. FWIW.
The only way I could see anyone getting "upset" is if someone really wanted a CS Fender and the price was more than they could afford. Yeah, boo hoo.
I'd love a Shelby Mustang more than any car on the planet. I can't afford one. I don't go around saying that the car isn't worth the asking price, though. Just my perspective. FWIW.I'm not sure that a "what you get for the money" type of analysis is valid when applied to any custom built instrument. By definition, custom-made gear is not made to a bang for the buck standard. The way I think of it, mass produced instrucments and custom built instruments fall on different sides of an economic fence. As you ascend the price ladder for mass produced instruments you begin to realize the effect of diminishing returns for what you pay for a guitar. Custom-order instruments are well beyond the point of diminishing returns. I think that even contemplating what you get for the money shouldn't apply to a custom made instrument. When you're talking about a custom instrument, the real question is, "What's it's going to cost for me to have exactly what I want." After all, custom made instruments are luxury items.
The custom instrument niche isn't a value oriented niche. It's exactly the opposite.
I don't disagree with what you're saying about custom instruments in general, but we all know the majority of the Custom Shop's stuff is not really "custom" - at least not the relics and replicas that were talking about here in this thread. The client isn't normally telling the master builder what they want for these basses. In this case, the vast majority of people just buy these guitars at a shop or online, already made, the way it is.. and they pay 3 or 4xs more because a "master" built it. IMO, there just isn't enough to these replica basses to need a master to build them, because they are so simple. That's why I made the, "it's like having Chef Ramsay making you a bowl of cereal" analogy. And I bet that bowl of cereal would cost $100. And I bet there are people out there willing to pay it. That's how I see these Custom Shop's replicas nowadays. I personally can't take these instruments seriously anymore.
Good points. I think that economy of scale has to be considered as well. Wew haven't talked about that yet. Regardless of the quality of craftsmanship and whether or not a master builder is actually needed for the CS guitars, they are a low volume item. Low volume and small production runs add to cost, compared to the mass produced assembly line type of items. Of course, the prices may be inflated beyond this amount, but it's Fender's prerogative to do that. After all, they are in business to make money, and with CS instruments they expect that there will be more people who think the prices are too high than people who will be willing to pay for them. Alienating the low end customer adds to exclusivity and that's part of the tiered marketing plan. It's expected that many people will scoff at the price. Unless that happens, the prices are set too low.
I've had a few Fender CS instruments. One of them was a CS NOS 64 Jazz bass, it was a work of art and played like a dream. If you look at the details, headstock shape, body shape, neck shape, finish, they really are well done. Getting the little things /details takes a lot of time. At the moment I have an AV62RI-P & Jazz bass and they are very good, but not like the CS.....The NOS 64 (made in 04) I picked up for under $2000.00, w/original case, candy & cert, and it was mint. Deals are out there if you take your time and look around.
So you're smart and they're stupid?
I don't know, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. kidding.
These threads generally boil down to people who conflate/confuse "value" and "price."
Is an $8K CS bass worth it to me? Well, since I have certain goals with my instruments, and a "Fender-type" instrument doesn't fulfill it, no. Is it worth it to someone else? Maybe. Should I care? Probably not.
I've paid $10K for a bass. Many here on TB would say I am crazy and that it can't be worth the money. And for them - it isn't. For me, that bass totally speaks to me, I gig it all the time (averaging over 100+ shows a year), and it inspires me every time I pick it up. For an inanimate object to have that power over me and to be a willing and able tool for me to make music it totally is worth it to me and is a great value.
Value is in the eye of the beholder and on one else. There are no absolute parameters that can be applied. And in the end, if you think that CS basses aren't worth it there is a very simple solution - don't buy one. End of story.
Is an $8K CS bass worth it to me? Well, since I have certain goals with my instruments, and a "Fender-type" instrument doesn't fulfill it, no. Is it worth it to someone else? Maybe. Should I care? Probably not.
I've paid $10K for a bass. Many here on TB would say I am crazy and that it can't be worth the money. And for them - it isn't. For me, that bass totally speaks to me, I gig it all the time (averaging over 100+ shows a year), and it inspires me every time I pick it up. For an inanimate object to have that power over me and to be a willing and able tool for me to make music it totally is worth it to me and is a great value.
Value is in the eye of the beholder and on one else. There are no absolute parameters that can be applied. And in the end, if you think that CS basses aren't worth it there is a very simple solution - don't buy one. End of story.
