Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Fender Decals On Non-Fender Basses
- Thread starter JAUQO III-X
- Start date
- Status
Obviously. Thank you. But if I wanted to build one in my back yard and put his logo on it, who cares? UNLESS I was trying to rip someone off! All crime is wrong. But I say again, that was not the initial question in this thread. Does ferari have their cars built in 5 or 6 different countries Like Fender? No, they have maintained an integrity to the product line and thus made counterfieting MUCH harder to pursue. But I digress... All I'm saying is, WHO CARES?
Are the Fender police going to knock down my door because I built or bought (maybe unknowingly) a non-Fender bass with a Fender logo on it? They don't care unless someone is trying to SELL that bass/guitar/amp/coffee cup/ashtray. So I say again ( in the spirit of the initial question of the thread ) WHO CARES? It's just about money. If there no money being made, they don't care.
All these guys who shelled out thousands for their vintage Fenders do.
Seriously, look at the profiles of everyone who is getting super mad about this. Expensive Fender.
Disclosure: I am a bit torn on the issue. While I agree that there is an issue with resale...modifying your own instruments I don't have an issue with. Let me play Devil's advocate here though.
We are talking about applying a label...what about swapping out other components? (perhaps this has been brought up before in this thread...my applogies)...if you switch pickups can you still call it a fender?
...or here is a crazy thought....what if you have a genuine Fender neck and swap it with a non-Fender body....such as this:
That is a genuine Geddy Lee jazz neck on a Thunderbird body. Let's assume that I put a blank neck plate and pickguard on there so there is no obvious markings that it is not a Fender. Am I commuting a "crime" by selling this to someone who isn't smart enough to figure out that this sin't a Fender? It could easily be resold as a Fender by our deceitful label analogy (assuming an inept buyer).
What if I had a licensed Fender neck and put it on that bass (with a unlicensed decal)....it is obviously not a stock Fender. Is the decal still an issue? What if I put a Fender decal somewhere on the body (that was an official sticker from Fender...say a bumper stick or something)...or if I put it on the neck....would this still be an issue? ...even if it is obviously not a Fender...despite the excellent craftsmanship of this hypothetical application
To me this whole issue is a tough call. Knowingly reselling an instrument as counterfeit is obviously wrong, but crafting your own to look like an original is not (assuming you made your own decals)....the act of selling it as such is (as stated above).
As much as I hate to say it: Caveat Emptor
At least within the TB community there are knowledgeable people to help us stray from purchasing fraudulent goods..unfortuately I am sure we are a small fraction of the bass playing community at large.
jc
Easy: A neck made by Fender is entitled to the decal Fender installed.
I say again, if you're not trying to rip anyone off....
And by that logic, if "anyone" can put a Fender logo on a bass and people can't tell the difference, what does that say about what a "fender" is?
scotch
It's not rocket science!
- Nov 12, 2006
- 6,944
- 2,081
- 51
- Disclosures
- Please see Profile for Endorsement disclosures
a) I'm a Fender endorser and have personal relationships with employees of FMIC.
b) I depend on intellectual property, in part, for my livelihood.
c) Yeah, I care! I guess it's not very 'cutting edge', but yes, I CARE. It's not just about the principle, either. Respect, integrity, honesty and fairness all come into play. Whether it's in marketing, playing, writing, buying/selling instruments, whatever. Yes, I CARE.
d) I'd defend any trademark or copyright holder in the same way. And I do.
So, can you have a "WHO CARES", attitude? Sure, go on with your bad self. Enjoy. Nobody from TalkBass is going to come knocking on your door. But let's not pretend that that there aren't clear, legally defined issues here. Fender owns their trademark. They, and only they, get to decide what instruments get that trademark. No matter how many automobile metaphors, straw-man arguments or self-justificating circular arguments you come up with. If you decide to support the counterfeiters of fake-Fender decals, that's your choice.
b) I depend on intellectual property, in part, for my livelihood.
c) Yeah, I care! I guess it's not very 'cutting edge', but yes, I CARE. It's not just about the principle, either. Respect, integrity, honesty and fairness all come into play. Whether it's in marketing, playing, writing, buying/selling instruments, whatever. Yes, I CARE.
d) I'd defend any trademark or copyright holder in the same way. And I do.
So, can you have a "WHO CARES", attitude? Sure, go on with your bad self. Enjoy. Nobody from TalkBass is going to come knocking on your door. But let's not pretend that that there aren't clear, legally defined issues here. Fender owns their trademark. They, and only they, get to decide what instruments get that trademark. No matter how many automobile metaphors, straw-man arguments or self-justificating circular arguments you come up with. If you decide to support the counterfeiters of fake-Fender decals, that's your choice.
SOME people can tell the difference immediately. Those would be the informed people who care in many cases. It doesn't say anything about what a Fender is.
Obviously...but the question is...where does it end.....?
What if I wanted a matching headstock...so I painted over the Fender decal....if I apply a new decal (yeah I know they aren't made by Fender)....is it still counterfeit?
What if Fender actually sold decals? What if I bought a real decal from Fender and put it on a no-name neck?
There are so many scenarios....in a perfect world people would always let people know exactly what they are buying and selling and their integrity would keep that going. This is not a luxury we have.
I just see this as two issues....1) people counterfeiting with intent to defraud and 2) people being upset with a neck change out but then not having an issue with other things such as pickup replacements.....and what exactly a genuine Fender bass is...
scotch
It's not rocket science!
- Nov 12, 2006
- 6,944
- 2,081
- 51
- Disclosures
- Please see Profile for Endorsement disclosures
Go to a Fender authorized dealer. If you have a legitimate Fender instrument, that dealer will be able to procure an actual Fender decal for you in case of damage, finish issues, etc.
It's really not up to you to judge Fender on their business practices. If you don't like Fender, don't buy Fender products. Your disapproval doesn't give you free reign to counterfeit thier products.
You ask "who cares"? Ferrari cares, FMIC cares, the US government cares, Fender employees care, Fender dealers care, Fender collectors care, Fender customers care, and everyone with a shred of integrity cares. That's who cares.
The poseur issue aside, your counterfeit Fender will end up on the used market. Eventually someone will pass that thing off as a Fender to an unwitting buyer. YOU should care.
Personally I like blank headstocks. No problem with 'em.
You know, I WAS if the school that if someone was making a "tribute" bass or for whatever reason they just wanted to brand something as a Fender because they just had to have that name on the headstock, then as long as they never tried to sell it as anything other than a fake, it's no harm, no foul.
But someone made the point that at some point, unless the instrument was buried with the owner, that instrument will change hands. Unless the person left inheriting it and deciding to sell it KNEW its history and had the requisite moral compass to let a potential buyer know its history, well then, there'd be another "vintage" or used "real" Fender on the market.
We all know what that market is like and also how easy it is to fool some people with counterfeits.
Might well end up with a no-name or less-heralded-brand bass floating through owners and collectors and going up, up in value over the years.
Might take a luthier or someone with real know-how in repairs and Fender history to realize the dupe, but that could take years or maybe never happen.
Even if there was no dishonesty in the original owner/modders intent, it could have negative repercussions down the road.
I still think, in this world today, it's not a huuuge issue, and of course people will do what they want to, but this thread has made me change my opinion somewhat.
Yes.
I have also seen people onvarious forums put together a guitar or bass build from all licensed Fender parts (bodies, necks, components) and slap a Fender logo on there.
In those cases, I'd think a Fender decal wouldn't be inappropriate.
- Status
Latest posts
-
The Bartolini BH2: Why Does It Sound So Dark? My EHB1265MS Experiments- Latest: funkinbottom
-
-
