Fender Jazz only with 20 frets; why?

[Quilbert]

Fender has come out with Jazz basses with more frets in the past. With people like Wooten, Jimmy Johnson, John Pattatucci and many others who solo up the neck, if there is no disadvantage with only making 20 frets, it is seems odd that a company who updated pickups, bridge, neck design, and tuners did not add more frets for jazz players.

The new Elites have 21 frets, so why not the standard?

Funny you mention that. I owned a 'boner' jazz bass, back in 1994. It was a little strange looking, I believe it had 22 frets. It was beset by problems with the bridge pickup. the finish on the neck started to crack and was rough to the feel. Poor build quality.

 

[Green Lantern]

Why do cars have 4 wheels? Why does a coffee mug have one handle? Why do forks have four (or three) tines)? Because they were first popularized in that version, and kept selling. When razors started being made with multiple blades, people stopped buying single blade razors, even though four blades won't give you a better shave.

When Fender made 24 fret basses, they didn't sell as well. Why are people blaming them for selling what sells? You want to solo above there, buy a different bass.

Why be so obnoxious with your statement? No one is blaming Fender for anything, a simple question was asked.
Have a good day

 

[kuuuks]

Was contemplating on this last week so I start doing some research and noticed fender has 20, 21, 22 and did a run for even 24s frets

 

[johnson79]

Funny you mention that. I owned a 'boner' jazz bass, back in 1994. It was a little strange looking, I believe it had 22 frets. It was beset by problems with the bridge pickup. the finish on the neck started to crack and was rough to the feel. Poor build quality.

I had one too! I ended up selling off the neck and stripping the body thinking I would rebuild it. Only then did I realize a standard neck wouldn't work. Fortunately I was able to sell the body to a guy that had a boner neck!

 

[johnson79]

I had one too! I ended up selling off the neck and stripping the body thinking I would rebuild it. Only then did I realize a standard neck wouldn't work. Fortunately I was able to sell the body to a guy that had a boner neck!

Just realized I said I had a boner.drool

 

[Dale Griffith]

In 50 years of playing i've only done 1 song that used the 20th fret: the bass intro to The Real Me by The Who. Outside of that and another interlude with bass only, the song doesn't require anything over the 5th fret. I've never had a need or desire to play any fret higher than 20. I have some 21 and 24 fret basses and I've noodled around up there in the ozone but I don't go there when I'm performing.

More power to you if you can successfully use pitches that high, but I play bass because I like to keep the low end present and groovin'. If I wanted to play solos and pitches that high I would have played guitar. If you play jazz YMMD.

 

[yodedude2]

I've never actually heard a recording of one of these (or that I'm aware of). With the pup so far away from the bridge, this thing has got to sound fairly tubby, even with steel rounds on.

"The Fender Bass V was only seen on the first leg of the 1973 (Led Zeppelin) US Tour from May 04, 1973 until June 03, 1973 for songs such as Over The Hills And Far Away, The Song Remains The Same and Heartbreaker, to name a few." so if you can find some live recordings from that time frame, you can hear it played by john paul jones. he only played it for two months? must not have liked it; not enough frets

 

[Slinger]

Leo added the 21st fret to the StingRay because players wanted to reach that high E. Why not high F, high G, high A, B, C, etc.? Where do you stop?

Where do you stop? When you suddenly realise you're playing a Ukelele and not a bass any more maybe?

 

[lfmn16]

If you have a product that's working and selling well why on earth would you change it?

Because a tiny minority can't stop whining about what you are doing wrong?

 

[chris_b]

I would guess anyone wanting to play above the 20th fret is really in 5 string with a high C territory.

 

[khutch]

I own basses with 20, 21, and 24 frets. Intellectually I like the idea of 24 frets (or better yet the 30 "fret" Ibanez Portamento!) but I can't really say that I am hampered by a lack of frets when I play the 20 fret bass. Those basses have 4, 6, and 5 strings respectively. If I seriously need more range I turn to the ones with the higher string count, the fret number differences are kinda in the noise level, IMO.

 

[Mushroo]

I believe there is a simple and musical explanation for 20 frets: It is the fewest number of frets to give the instrument a full two-octave range in all 12 keys. If for example there were only 19 frets (highest note D), then we wouldn't be able to play a two-octave Eb scale.

Another way to look at it is that a 20-fret Fender bass has a range of 36 half-steps, which means we can play each of the 12 notes of the chromatic scale in exactly 3 different octaves: low/mid/high E, low/mid/high F, low/mid/high F#/Gb, low/mid/high G, and so on up to low/mid/high Eb.

There is a lot of musical symmetry in the patterns we can unlock on the fretboard of the 20-fret bass. There's no question in my mind, the invention of a bass instrument that can comfortably modulate, in tune, through all 12 keys, changed the course of 20th century music and beyond.

 

[mikezimmerman]

I believe there is a simple and musical explanation for 20 frets: It is the fewest number of frets to give the instrument a full two-octave range in all 12 keys. If for example there were only 19 frets (highest note D), then we wouldn't be able to play a two-octave Eb scale.

Another way to look at it is that a 20-fret Fender bass has a range of 36 half-steps, which means we can play each of the 12 notes of the chromatic scale in exactly 3 different octaves: low/mid/high E, low/mid/high F, low/mid/high F#/Gb, low/mid/high G, and so on.

There is a lot of musical symmetry in the patterns we can unlock on the fretboard of the 20-fret bass.

Interesting point!

 

[Joebone]

Just realized I said I had a boner.drool

Just sayin' it doesn't make it true...

 

[Quilbert]

I personally like to have 24 frets. Its nice to have 3 octaves per string (counting open string as one octave). But its not a deal breaker or anything. I could live with 23 I guess

 

[Buszkock]

There is a lot of musical symmetry in the patterns we can unlock on the fretboard of the 20-fret bass.

Great analysis!

 

[buldog5151bass]

Why be so obnoxious with your statement? No one is blaming Fender for anything, a simple question was asked.
Have a good day

It wasn't aimed at OP, but rather the people who are getting all over Fender in their replies - just people who call Rickenbacker leadership for THEIR decisions.

Dumping on Fender, Ric, and GC is almost a daily routine here - it gets old.

 

[Joebone]

I believe there is a simple and musical explanation for 20 frets: It is the fewest number of frets to give the instrument a full two-octave range in all 12 keys. If for example there were only 19 frets (highest note D), then we wouldn't be able to play a two-octave Eb scale.

Another way to look at it is that a 20-fret Fender bass has a range of 36 half-steps, which means we can play each of the 12 notes of the chromatic scale in exactly 3 different octaves: low/mid/high E, low/mid/high F, low/mid/high F#/Gb, low/mid/high G, and so on up to low/mid/high Eb.

There is a lot of musical symmetry in the patterns we can unlock on the fretboard of the 20-fret bass. There's no question in my mind, the invention of a bass instrument that can comfortably modulate, in tune, through all 12 keys, changed the course of 20th century music and beyond.

This makes sense!

That said, I like extra frets for the additional range - I play some jazz and also get solo space in my latin rock band. I think the Yamaha/Patitucci basses have 26 frets, IIRC the Warwick Thumb also has 26, and Lord knows how many "frets" would reside along Michael Manring's Hyperbass. However, for a host of ergonomic reasons, I'm clustering around a pair of basses (fretted and fretless) with 22 fret spacing. I honestly don't know the extent to which the number of frets contributes to this ergonomic perception - I think it goes more to body shape, body size and neck width and depth - but who knows? Also gotta recognize the utility of 21 frets so you can get that high E.

I should also add that less frets means more range for timbral variation via right-hand placement. Consider the nice dubby tone you can get on a 20-fret jazz by playing up at the edge of the fingerboard, and still able to get a lot of fingerflesh onto the string without the 21st, 22nd etc. frets in the way. And my slapping technique is minimal and often reliant upon bounce off of the fretboard, but I gather a lot of slappers like the open terrain that comes with fewer frets.

22 frets features on some of the more playable axes out there - Lakland 4-94 and variants, the Roscoe Beck basses that Fender made, and the Sadowsky Will Lee models (have never played one of those but am confident they would feel great). Gotta wonder if Roscoe Beck and Will Lee deliberately chose 22 as the best compromise between range and timbral flexibility.

 

[HolmeBass]

I have a '77 J (see avatar) and I *really* wish it had the 21st fret! Ending the range on Eb is bogus, why not give a full 3 octaves?

 

[MYLOWFREQ]

What are you doing that high up there???