fender price hike.. or not?

[mike_v_s]

Thanks - that's weird. But those links show maple v. rosewood, not 2008 v. 2009. And they are both selling for the same cheaper price at the bottom of the page. It's just that the maple neck bass has a higher price in the middle of the page, whereas the rosewood does not. But that just could be a mistake (ie they went to the higher price and then back down again).

How do we know this means there's actually a price hike for 2009 models? Could be, but I don't see how you get there based on those links.

The $620 basses clearly state that they are "upgraded" for 2009. The $449 basses do not. If you are attempting to infer that that the maple neck (only available on 2009 models) is a $170 option on MIM basses, then I respectfully guide you to all of the other Fender lines and ask you to please indicate where that price difference is reflected elsewhere. You won't find it. Or you could call TPB.

Personally, I think it takes a quite a logical bend to call this anything other than the well known and well discussed Fender price increase for 2009.

Mike

 

[Balkan]

I don't know what you're referring to, but we were discussing the American Standards being sold at the links above - one is maple, one rosewood. Did you look at the links above?

BOTH basses are selling for the same price - the old $1,149. The only difference being that the maple neck page has an error on it. The "Player's Price" is listed at $1,500 but when you scroll down it's actually $1,149, and that's the price you get when you put in your cart. The rosewood is selling for the exact same price, and there is no typo on the page. "The Player's Price" is $1,149 both at the top and bottom of the page. As far as I can tell neither bass is identified as a 2008 or 2009.

I'm not inferring anything from this. I'm just saying the plain fact that those particular links do not reflect a difference in pricing between 2008 and 2009 basses.

 

[BlizzardBass]

I heard MF didn't even get around to raising prices yet.

In their last magazine I got the prices were $1439.99 for a P, and $1479.99 for a J.

 

[mike_v_s]

I don't know what you're referring to, but we were discussing the American Standards being sold at the links above - one is maple, one rosewood. Did you look at the links above?

Yes. The thread is discussing the "missing" price hike. On the last page, I pointed out that TPB was now pricing basses identified as 2009 models at the known increase. Your response was as follows:

I'm confused - I saw this and checked the website. I saw American Standards beings sold with no price increase, and with no indication whether they are 2008 or 2009. Am I missing something?

My point is that what you are missing is that I wasn't referencing the American Standards.

BOTH basses are selling for the same price - the old $1,149. The only difference being that the maple neck page has an error on it. The "Player's Price" is listed at $1,500 but when you scroll down it's actually $1,149, and that's the price you get when you put in your cart. The rosewood is selling for the exact same price, and there is no typo on the page. "The Player's Price" is $1,149 both at the top and bottom of the page. As far as I can tell neither bass is identified as a 2008 or 2009.

I'm not inferring anything from this. I'm just saying the plain fact that those particular links do not reflect a difference in pricing between 2008 and 2009 basses.

That's great. The MIM do, and that's my point. I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that the MIM basses sell at a faster rate and will therefor be replaced by the 2009 models (and subsequent price increase) quicker than the MIA's.

The bottom line is that, yes, Fender has increased prices and it is now reflected in the market.

Mike

 

[Balkan]

Ah - got it now. But if you go back and read my post it's also 100% clear that I was never suggesting that maple necks are an upgrade.

As to what's ultimately going on with the price increase, and whether it sticks, only time will tell.

 

[mike_v_s]

The handful of online stores I just spot checked now have the 2009 prices. Can we put the "did they or didn't they" to bed now and get back to the usual "Fender is a huge evil corporation bumping prices by huge margins because they know they can get away with it" ? Great.

Mike

 

[mike_v_s]

Ah - got it now. But if you go back and read my post it's also 100% clear that I was never suggesting that maple necks are an upgrade.

I wasn't sure what you were getting at, but that was the only conclusion I could think of.

As to what's ultimately going on with the price increase, and whether it sticks, only time will tell.

See above. It looks to be a done deal. I will note that the larger online retailers seem to have list prices on the MIM off by a few dollars (well, $80, to be exact). I'd be interested to know if that is a typo or a "decrease in the increase".

Mike

 

[Balkan]

. . . and by the way, I think the reason why the 2009 MIMs are listed separately from the 2008s, is because Fender is marketing the 2009 MIM Standard as a "new model" with upgrades, whereas it is not doing the same for the American Standards which is the same this year as last. You can see that here in the Fender new product catalog: Invalid Link Removed

Obviously, this is a different issue from the price increase, but it also suggests that the American Standards being sold might already be the 2009 models. You can't tell from the web page because the 2009 American is not being marketed as a new product.

 

[Balkan]

Just look at the Birdman post I was quoting, read what he said, and the click on the links he pasted. I think all will be clear then. In any case, I was focused on the Americans the whole time.

I wasn't sure what you were getting at, but that was the only conclusion I could think of.

Mike

 

[mike_v_s]

. . . and by the way, I think the reason why the 2009 MIMs are listed separately from the 2008s, is because Fender is marketing the 2009 MIM Standard as a "new model" with upgrades, whereas it is not doing the same for the American Standards which is the same this year as last. You can see that here in the Fender new product catalog: Invalid Link Removed

This is a possibility, but...

Obviously, this is a different issue from the price increase, but it also suggests that the American Standards being sold might already be the 2009 models. You can't tell from the web page because the 2009 American is not being marketed as a new product.

Musician's Friend has the MIA's with a list of $1800/$1880 for the P/J respectively.

Mike

 

[mike_v_s]

Just look at the Birdman post I was quoting, read what he said, and the click on the links he pasted. I think all will be clear then. In any case, I was focused on the Americans the whole time.

Fair enough. My only position in this thread was that the increase was coming, regardless of the place of manufacture. I used the MIM's as an example because they were the first to show it on a website I frequent. The other online retailers are now selling basses at the increase, so I feel it is pretty much done.

Mike

 

[Balkan]

OK - well I just checked Sam Ash, and they are saying today is the last day that they are selling at 2008 prices. That suggests a March 1 price hike across the board. So I'm guessing that all American Standards will be treated the same, and I guess we'll see see if tomorrow is the day that prices are up on every website. And then we'll see down the line if this new pricing model works out for Fender or not!

 

[venk]

Hi All,

If any of you have been frustrated by the MAP pricing from Fender and their insane price increases along their entire line along with their main competitor Gibson, please go to

Link Removed

and register a complaint for FTC to investigate a price-fixing/collusion possibility between Fender and Gibson. This only takes a few minutes and the wizard there will guide you through the process. I believe there is already an investigation by several states on Fender price fixing policies.

I have always been a Fender man and have never played anything else but I am not happy with the corporate practices of Fender.

Thanks

PS: If you personally don't think this is warranted, that is OK. Many of us believe that such price increases cannot be supported without monopolistic and price fixing practices and while we can certainly choose not to buy Fender and go elsewhere, such boycotts will not prevent anti-consumer practices. Hence we are starting this grass roots movement to bring public and regulatory attention to Fender's business practices. I hope you will reconsider.

 

[mike_v_s]

Hi All,

If any of you have been frustrated by the MAP pricing from Fender and their insane price increases along their entire line along with their main competitor Gibson, please go to

Link Removed

and register a complaint for FTC to investigate a price-fixing/collusion possibility between Fender and Gibson. This only takes a few minutes and the wizard there will guide you through the process. I believe there is already an investigation by several states on Fender price fixing policies.

I have always been a Fender man and have never played anything else but I am not happy with the corporate practices of Fender.

Thanks

PS: If you personally don't think this is warranted, that is OK. Many of us believe that such price increases cannot be supported without monopolistic and price fixing practices and while we can certainly choose not to buy Fender and go elsewhere, such boycotts will not prevent anti-consumer practices. Hence we are starting this grass roots movement to bring public and regulatory attention to Fender's business practices. I hope you will reconsider.

Are you seriously trying to force a company to produce a cheaper luxury item when there are hundreds of alternatives already available to you?

Fender and Gibson are not the only companies to raise prices in the last year and I find the idea of collusion betwen the two laughable. EVERYTHING has gone up in price, not just musical instruments.

Yes, Fender had a large increase at a time of economic recession. Am i the only one that thinks this wasn't their ideal plan, but rather something they felt had to be done to keep their margins in line as the cost of raw materials has increased? I guess so. In the last year this website has been flush with compliments over the much improved quality of the MIA Fenders and the Squier line. That isn't a free upgrade. You don't just snap your corporate fingers and say "make it better".

Fender still makes a good product at a good pricepoint. Those wanting a MIM Standard should now look at the CV Squiers. I think they'll find that the quality is equal (or better) than that of MIM from a few years ago and the price is the same. Sorry it says "Squier" on the headstock, but that shouldn't matter if quality for a good price is your issue. On the same note, I think you'll find the quality of the new MIA line on par with other offerings in the same price range.

In the end, there are so many Fender knockoffs across all pricepoints that I don't even know how anyone can justify what you are suggesting. If the pricing is THAT out of line, let the market decide and Fender wil fail.

Mike

 

[rustynuts]

Hi All,

If any of you have been frustrated by the MAP pricing from Fender and their insane price increases along their entire line along with their main competitor Gibson, please go to

Link Removed

and register a complaint for FTC to investigate a price-fixing/collusion possibility between Fender and Gibson. This only takes a few minutes and the wizard there will guide you through the process. I believe there is already an investigation by several states on Fender price fixing policies.

I have always been a Fender man and have never played anything else but I am not happy with the corporate practices of Fender.

Thanks

PS: If you personally don't think this is warranted, that is OK. Many of us believe that such price increases cannot be supported without monopolistic and price fixing practices and while we can certainly choose not to buy Fender and go elsewhere, such boycotts will not prevent anti-consumer practices. Hence we are starting this grass roots movement to bring public and regulatory attention to Fender's business practices. I hope you will reconsider.

This is getting beyond ridiculous.

 

[dean owens]

Hi All,

If any of you have been frustrated by the MAP pricing from Fender and their insane price increases along their entire line along with their main competitor Gibson, please go to

Link Removed

and register a complaint for FTC to investigate a price-fixing/collusion possibility between Fender and Gibson. This only takes a few minutes and the wizard there will guide you through the process. I believe there is already an investigation by several states on Fender price fixing policies.

I have always been a Fender man and have never played anything else but I am not happy with the corporate practices of Fender.

Thanks

PS: If you personally don't think this is warranted, that is OK. Many of us believe that such price increases cannot be supported without monopolistic and price fixing practices and while we can certainly choose not to buy Fender and go elsewhere, such boycotts will not prevent anti-consumer practices. Hence we are starting this grass roots movement to bring public and regulatory attention to Fender's business practices. I hope you will reconsider.

wow. i want to say so much more but i'm not really sure it matters. wow.

 

[debassr]

Hi All,

If any of you have been frustrated by the MAP pricing from Fender and their insane price increases along their entire line along with their main competitor Gibson, please go to

Link Removed

and register a complaint for FTC to investigate a price-fixing/collusion possibility between Fender and Gibson. This only takes a few minutes and the wizard there will guide you through the process. I believe there is already an investigation by several states on Fender price fixing policies.

I have always been a Fender man and have never played anything else but I am not happy with the corporate practices of Fender.

Thanks

PS: If you personally don't think this is warranted, that is OK. Many of us believe that such price increases cannot be supported without monopolistic and price fixing practices and while we can certainly choose not to buy Fender and go elsewhere, such boycotts will not prevent anti-consumer practices. Hence we are starting this grass roots movement to bring public and regulatory attention to Fender's business practices. I hope you will reconsider.

So the logic here is to send the FTC after Fender so they have to hire a team of expensive lawyers to defend themselves? Do you think that would help drive their costs down or up? Seems counter-intuitive to me.

I still think the best way to deal with this is to send a message to [email protected] - just tell them that you value their products highly but can no longer afford them due to the recent price hike and economic conditions and politely ask that they reconsider their new pricing structure.

 

[Balkan]

OK - so we have several theories now:

1. collusion with Gibson (I agree this makes no sense how much competition there is from other companies and the used market)

2. Raw materials prices are (or were) up

3. Fender is betting on inflation--in which case this is only a nominal increase, not a real one.

But what about a 4th theory - perhaps Fender is deliberately trying to push business down the chain to Mexico and Indonesia where perhaps it makes the most money? IE the American price increase will cause some people to buy Mexicans instead of Fenders. And a bunch of former Mexican customers will now buy the new improved Squiers. If Fender makes more money under that model - then the price increase during the recession makes sense I think. It's not that Fender wants to sell fewer basses, they just want to convert the American into more of a luxury brand compared to the rest of the line.

After all, McDonald's stock has been up in the last year. And Squier is Fender's McDonald's. That may be where the money is right now for Fender.

 

[mike_v_s]

OK - so we have several theories now:

1. collusion with Gibson (I agree this makes no sense how much competition there is from other companies and the used market)

2. Raw materials prices are (or were) up

3. Fender is betting on inflation--in which case this is only a nominal increase, not a real one.

But what about a 4th theory - perhaps Fender is deliberately trying to push business down the chain to Mexico and Indonesia where perhaps it makes the most money? IE the American price increase will cause some people to buy Mexicans instead of Fenders. And a bunch of former Mexican customers will now buy the new improved Squiers. If Fender makes more money under that model - then the price increase during the recession makes sense I think. It's not that Fender wants to sell fewer basses, they just want to convert the American into more of a luxury brand compared to the rest of the line.

After all, McDonald's stock has been up in the last year. And Squier is Fender's McDonald's. That may be where the money is right now for Fender.

While I simply can't agree that this is the driving force behind the increase (too many other companies have already raised prices to combat the situation...some of them on their import lines) I think this is definitely a reasonable theory. Tightening up tolerances and improving the Squier line undoubtabley led to more sales and I think the line has effectively been notched where the MIM was a few years ago.

Location of manufacture is not a big issue for me, however. If they can provide a similar product for a similar price, their relatively decreasing overhead is none of my concern. If the are making more on the imports, it makes sense to push them harder. They wouldn't be the first company or industry to do so.

A friend of mine opened a chain restaurant local to me yesterday. We spoke briefly about the menu board and why certain items were "highlighted". The truthful answer? Some items were signature items they wanted to push, but most were items with a higher profit margin. They were lit up in a color scheme that was supposed to draw your attention to them in the order or profit margin.

I guess I'm saying I buy into your theory as a partial explanation, but not one I find criminal or even objectionable. It's good business and the consumer doesn't appear to have lost anything in the way of quality, just country of origin.

Mike

 

[Captain_Arrrg]

...

Thanks

PS: If you personally don't think this is warranted, that is OK. Many of us (who wish to dictate the worth of something we had no hand in making) believe that such price increases cannot be supported without monopolistic and price fixing practices and while we can certainly choose not to buy Fender and go elsewhere, such boycotts will not completely prevent anti-consumer practices from these select manufactures. Hence there is no monopoly, and no reason for government involvement.

FYP