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Fender Rumble Club

#13,123
Linnin said:
Either way I refuse to mess with idiots. Standard tune or take a flying leap. That's why I insist in having a good keyboardist in the band.
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The best keyboardist can blend right into a drop tuned band, to them its just a key change, this song is in C, and we are an octave lower. No problem for a keyboard player, but stubborn purist on a 4 string in standard will be doubling the same note on the a string. Not an issue for a 5 stringer.

I have only been playing with other people for 25 yrs. Encountered all kinds of low and dropped tuning, usually in metal or grunge-terna-modern rock. But never encountered anyone not at 440.

So the 432 idea is novel to me.
 
#13,127
C# G# C# F#, fun. Actually a decent sounding band more like the Soundgarden take on drop tuning.

Though it is a cattle call, and I don't do well with those, so I don't have high hopes of beating out younger guys without beer guts, moobs, thinning hair, and who still have more expensive rigs. I had a set of XLs 105,85,70,50 on the jazz bass, and put a .115 DM nicklesteel on in place of the 105/for the low c#. The p bass didn't have the right tone, the ibanez sr500 was OK and already had a .110 low string, so that will be my backup for the audition.

Still in 440 LOL :bassist:
 
#13,129
BazzaBass said:
Hi folks, I have a question about coupling. I read that the Fender Rumble 500 needs to sit on some type of base. However it seems to be OK if it's on top of another cabinet ie 2x10. Why doesn't a two cab setup not couple??? Thank you
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Coupling is coupling. Having it up on another cab just elimates the lack of speakers high enough to hear them correctly. If you get too much boominess, you still might need to de couple.

IMO, I don't mind coupling, would rather use it to my advantage and just roll off the lows if needed. Bam, more headroom gained.
 
#13,130
ubernator said:
Coupling is coupling. Having it up on another cab just elimates the lack of speakers high enough to hear them correctly. If you get too much boominess, you still might need to de couple.

IMO, I don't mind coupling, would rather use it to my advantage and just roll off the lows if needed. Bam, more headroom gained.
Click to expand...


Thanks for clearing that up. Is a wedge on the ground under the 500 not enough?
 
#13,132
BazzaBass said:
Hi folks, I have a question about coupling. I read that the Fender Rumble 500 needs to sit on some type of base. However it seems to be OK if it's on top of another cabinet ie 2x10. Why doesn't a two cab setup not couple??? Thank you
Click to expand...
It does, indeed! A Fender Rumble 500 combo on top of a Fender Rumble 210 cabinet has serious cabinet coupling indeed. Who thinks or says otherwise?
 
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#13,134
So, got to play here today for the 2nd time.

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I play in Ghost Tropic.

Last year we played the "Back Yard Stage" This year was right in front of the stage entrance, were the concession stands are. They had the stage set for a featured film about the environment, so no bands on the stage.

Used the Rumble 500 head and 210 cab with my Fender American Jazz Standard and pedal board, NO SOUND SUPPORT/FOH!. Sounded great! Got LOTS of compliments about the tone. Was plenty loud for an outdoor gig.
 
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#13,135
BazzaBass said:
Hi folks, I have a question about coupling. I read that the Fender Rumble 500 needs to sit on some type of base. However it seems to be OK if it's on top of another cabinet ie 2x10. Why doesn't a two cab setup not couple??? Thank you
Click to expand...

Two things are work here: A speaker cabinet "coupling" with a hard floor, the results of which is a boominess, usually within a fairly narrow frequency band. The other "coupling" which occurs when speakers are stacked on top of each other is the line array effect. The use of the same term for two different effects (one negative and one positive) can be confusing.

So the answer to what I believe is the intention of your question is, "They do couple to the floor, but much less than non-arrays."

From wikipedia article on "Line Array":
A line array is a loudspeaker system that is made up of a number of usually identical loudspeaker elements mounted in a line and fed in phase, to create a near-line source of sound. The distance between adjacent drivers is close enough that they constructively interfere with each other to send sound waves farther than traditional Invalid Link Removed, and with a more evenly distributed sound output pattern.
​
I used to be pretty much into ham radio (and still into it to the extent the principles apply to marine radio services) and became fascinated with antennas. Antennas are the most important part of any radio; all the controls and tuners just exist to make the antenna effective over a broader frequency range and then tune in different freqs and amplify. I had an epiphany when I understood that loudspeakers radiated very much like transmitting radio antennas, especially when stacked in arrays. When you stack radiators vertically, the radiation lobes flatten dramatically. That results in more power delivered at radiator-level and less power delivered at the floor and the sky/ceiling. Same amount to power going into the radiators but it's being delivered in more useful directions.

Now if it weren't for this line array effect, the bottom cabinet of a stack would indeed still couple with the floor and result in excessive boominess, just like BazzBass questions. But because of the line array effect, much less sound energy is directed toward the floor so that floor/cabinet coupling is greatly reduced. Not eliminated, but reduced to the extent that any non-techie can hear it. But to really get the full clean sound of your amp, you need to raise speakers (even arrays) off the floor or at least make the physical contact with the floor as deadened as possible (Auralex Gramma). If you look at high-end home audio, the floor-standing towers have at least half a speaker-diameter distance between the floor and the first speaker.

I tried to pare this description down to a manageable length while still presenting enough material to express the concept. If I need to expand on any of this, i probably can, so just ask.
 
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#13,136
Scott Truesdell said:
Now if it weren't for this line array effect, the bottom cabinet of a stack would indeed still couple with the floor and result in excessive boominess, just like BazzBass questions. But because of the line array effect, much less sound energy is directed toward the floor so that floor/cabinet coupling is greatly reduced. Not eliminated, but reduced to the extent that any non-techie can hear it. But to really get the full clean sound of your amp, you need to raise speakers (even arrays) off the floor or at least make the physical contact with the floor as deadened as possible (Auralex Gramma). If you look at high-end home audio, the floor-standing towers have at least half a speaker-diameter distance between the floor and the first speaker.
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^^^This bears repeating^^^ I don't know why this seems to be so difficult to understand when it is really quite simple.
 
#13,138
Scott Truesdell said:
Two things are work here: A speaker cabinet "coupling" with a hard floor, the results of which is a boominess, usually within a fairly narrow frequency band. The other "coupling" which occurs when speakers are stacked on top of each other is the line array effect. The use of the same term for two different effects (one negative and one positive) can be confusing.

So the answer to what I believe is the intention of your question is, "They do couple to the floor, but much less than non-arrays."

From wikipedia article on "Line Array":
A line array is a loudspeaker system that is made up of a number of usually identical loudspeaker elements mounted in a line and fed in phase, to create a near-line source of sound. The distance between adjacent drivers is close enough that they constructively interfere with each other to send sound waves farther than traditional Invalid Link Removed, and with a more evenly distributed sound output pattern.
​
I used to be pretty much into ham radio (and still into it to the extent the principles apply to marine radio services) and became fascinated with antennas. Antennas are the most important part of any radio; all the controls and tuners just exist to make the antenna effective over a broader frequency range and then tune in different freqs and amplify. I had an epiphany when I understood that loudspeakers radiated very much like transmitting radio antennas, especially when stacked in arrays. When you stack radiators vertically, the radiation lobes flatten dramatically. That results in more power delivered at radiator-level and less power delivered at the floor and the sky/ceiling. Same amount to power going into the radiators but it's being delivered in more useful directions.

Now if it weren't for this line array effect, the bottom cabinet of a stack would indeed still couple with the floor and result in excessive boominess, just like BazzBass questions. But because of the line array effect, much less sound energy is directed toward the floor so that floor/cabinet coupling is greatly reduced. Not eliminated, but reduced to the extent that any non-techie can hear it. But to really get the full clean sound of your amp, you need to raise speakers (even arrays) off the floor or at least make the physical contact with the floor as deadened as possible (Auralex Gramma). If you look at high-end home audio, the floor-standing towers have at least half a speaker-diameter distance between the floor and the first speaker.

I tried to pare this description down to a manageable length while still presenting enough material to express the concept. If I need to expand on any of this, i probably can, so just ask.
Click to expand...

Excellent explanation. Thankyou very much for taking the time to help me understand.

Just a further question. What you are describing as a Vertical Array is a 500 combo on top of a 2x10 Cab? Is this more efficient than placing the 2 boxes next to each other which would be like a 4x10. Or is there no difference? Thankyou
 
#13,139
Stacking them gets the sound closer to your ears so you can hear it easier. For most, this means you won't have to play as loud to hear it as well!
BazzaBass said:
Excellent explanation. Thankyou very much for taking the time to help me understand.

Just a further question. What you are describing as a Vertical Array is a 500 combo on top of a 2x10 Cab? Is this more efficient than placing the 2 boxes next to each other which would be like a 4x10. Or is there no difference? Thankyou
Click to expand...
 
#13,140
BazzaBass said:
Excellent explanation. Thankyou very much for taking the time to help me understand.

Just a further question. What you are describing as a Vertical Array is a 500 combo on top of a 2x10 Cab? Is this more efficient than placing the 2 boxes next to each other which would be like a 4x10. Or is there no difference? Thankyou
Click to expand...

Yes, I believe your example would be better as they are 2 identical - speakers & configuration - cabinets one atop the other. Which I am assured leads to better ends than a conventional 410 arrangement.
 
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