Fender Rumble Club

[ubernator]

Another example would be if I plug a TS 1/4" plug into the effects send on my Mackie board, I get about -10 db unbalanced signal to whatever return I plug that into. If I plug a 1/4" TRS plug into the same output on the Mackie, I get a 0db (or +4dB, I forget which) balanced signal to whatever return I plug that into.

So I guess I will change my question to "which one or both output levels, or better yet, unbalanced or balanced, TS or TRS, or any combination of both, does the effects out and in of the Rumble 200/500 operate?

Thank you

You came in with a sound engineer/pro audio question on a budget bass amp thread, so don't be surprised that you went over some heads.

The manual only specifies 1kohm balanced for send and 22kohm balanced for return. Whether that implies -10, 0 or +4db is not specified. And I doubt it switches levels depending on if TS or TRS is used. If you can't gleen the info from the impedance, I'm sure a call to fender might get you an answer there. Also, the XLR balanced line out is 3.3kohms, max output +3.75dBU, different than the loop, where no dB rating is given.

And I'm sure most people are just using unbalanced cables. And rarely does the topic of the loop being used for its intended purpose seem to pop up here.

I doubt if fender put in any fancy switching that detects if the ring and sleeve are shorted by a TS cable, it would show on the diagram I think.

SWRs old manuals had more detailed specs than fender gives.

And for anyone else (not directed at OP) who by default assumes TRS always indicates stereo, or one jack in/out split needing a Y splitter... in the pro audio world, TRS cables are used to send balanced audio, positive, negative, ground, like an XLR cable, as opposed to TS which shares the ground with the negative, hence unbalancing the signal. Common TRS stereo is unbalanced, the pos for left, right, and a shared ground for both channels. Same with TRS insert points, always unbalanced, shared ground. Some cheaper amps have used one jack effect loops in the same way an insert is used on a low to mid grade mixer channel. Another unbalanced TRS cable scenario is when a guitar has a piezo system, and an insert Y tip/sleeve splitter type cable is used to run 2 amps, or Ric o sound which I am not sure if any TRS is used, since I am not a Ric guy.

Balanced can have a longer cable run than unbalanced, and is much more shielded from interference and noise, and is typically ran at a hotter level, +4. But not in all cases.

Many rack units with 1/4 balanced will have a -10/+4 switch, to match either level protocol.

 

[Rev. Cornelius]

Ubernator:

Thanks for the follow-up. I do believe that either TRS or TS will work. I am just trying to figure out possible connections to other equipment. The return on my Orange TB1000 is TS, the 1/4" input on my QSC PLX 1602 takes both TS unbalanced (-10dB) and TRS balanced (+4dB). I would like to avoid using the DI to QSC.

And I agree that although the DI is spec'd at +3.75dBU, there is no way that I can really tell what is the max output of the effects send. I think I will try calling Fender later today.

BTW, the Presonus article does a good job of explaining this cheap "Balanced" type of circuit.

Thanks

There are two reasons that I still believe that a TRS is the better connection although either one will work.

1. See the quote from Scott below. This shows TRS Balanced (mono, not stereo) connections on the block diagram. It took a few minutes to find a good explanation of that connection. It can be seen in the article at [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]. See photo insert. Scroll down article until you see the diagram in the attached image. This article does a good job of describing the benefits of using a TRS cable in this curcuit if the jack you are going to accepts a balanced TRS plug (like a power amp input). If the input or return jack you are going to does not accept a TRS plug simply use a TS cable to make the connection.




2. I did not notice it before, and my appologies to all, but see the second attached to see the specs from the manual. It says that both the effects loop and the line out are "Balanced."

Thanks Again,

Rev.CView attachment 910969 View attachment 910971

 

[Gravedigger Dav]

I believe that is a Rumble 100 v3 based on the size of it compared to the amp next to it. It will undoubtedly have a 12 inch speaker when you get it!! Still a great amp.

that is what I'm hoping it is. My fear is somebody did some "custom mods" and it isn't a stock 100. I wish I knew if there is a way to tell if the speaker is original without removing it from the cab. @Linnin says the cab is too big to be a 100. So, I'm thinking someone put a 100 head in a 200 cab which is a 15" or someone swapped out the speaker for a 15" which may not be the correct speaker.
Ah, the suspense and antici..........pation.

 

[eric_B]

I wish I knew if there is a way to tell if the speaker is original without removing it from the cab.

I don't know how. But you could just unscrew the speaker and compare it to the pictures of my V3 100 stock speaker I posted a while ago. Not a big thing.

or someone swapped out the speaker for a 15" which may not be the correct speaker.
Ah, the suspense and antici..........pation.

Looking at my 100, a 15" would be a very tight fit.
We're as curious as you are .

 

[Gravedigger Dav]

I don't know how. But you could just unscrew the speaker and compare it to the pictures of my V3 100 stock speaker I posted a while ago. Not a big thing.


Looking at my 100, a 15" would be a very tight fit.
We're as curious as you are .

I don't know if the guys at GC will let me dismantle it to check the speaker, but I may ask. The first thing I will do is to measure the cab size. If that isn't right, then I'll ask to see the back of the speaker. When did you post the picture? 681 pages is a lot to look through.

 

[GregT]

I don't know if the guys at GC will let me dismantle it to check the speaker, but I may ask. The first thing I will do is to measure the cab size. If that isn't right, then I'll ask to see the back of the speaker. When did you post the picture? 681 pages is a lot to look through.

Just pull off the grill and you will see if anything has been changed. My safe-bet-money is still on it just being a 100 with a 12 inch speaker. I have no doubt at all that that is what it is. GC often makes mistakes. I love my Rumble 100. My 200 is just that much better, but I use the 100 more.

 

[Gravedigger Dav]

Just pull off the grill and you will see if anything has been changed. My safe-bet-money is still on it just being a 100 with a 12 inch speaker. I have no doubt at all that that is what it is. GC often makes mistakes. I love my Rumble 100. My 200 is just that much better, but I use the 100 more.

I'll do that. I actually don't really need a 100. I was about to pull the trigger on a 40 to replace my 25 as a practice amp. I wanted to do that so I have the same front end and can toy with tones without breaking out the 400. But, this would be less money and I already have someone interested in my 25 if it all works out.

 

[parker 71]

Ok, I'll take my chances once again for advice what to buy:
is it better to take new Rumble 500 combo with new head over old 350w one or to take 350w previous Rumble model head with v3 115 cab?
And, if I go for 350 Rumble head with v3 115, is the one cab enough for 100-200 people gigs or I need two of them? Gigs are with and without FOH

 

[GregT]

that is what I'm hoping it is. My fear is somebody did some "custom mods" and it isn't a stock 100. I wish I knew if there is a way to tell if the speaker is original without removing it from the cab. @Linnin says the cab is too big to be a 100. So, I'm thinking someone put a 100 head in a 200 cab which is a 15" or someone swapped out the speaker for a 15" which may not be the correct speaker.
Ah, the suspense and antici..........pation.

The amp next to it is a Behringer GX212 which is 18.5 inches tall. The same as a Rumble 100!

 

[Gravedigger Dav]

Ok, I'll take my chances once again for advice what to buy:
is it better to take new Rumble 500 combo with new head over old 350w one or to take 350w previous Rumble model head with v3 115 cab?
And, if I go for 350 Rumble head with v3 115, is the one cab enough for 100-200 people gigs or I need two of them? Gigs are with and without FOH

I think either would do the job with or without FOH support. To me, the advantage goes to a new 500 v3. It is much lighter to carry around and you have a warranty. And if you want to add some extra punch, get an extension cab. I considered the 1x15, but decided on the 2x10 and I'm really happy with it. I didn't need it for volume, I got it to move more air and add that physical punch.

 

[Gravedigger Dav]

The amp next to it is a Behringer GX212 which is 18.5 inches tall. The same as a Rumble 100!

thanks, I didn't recognize it. I am really hoping you are right about this.

 

[Linnin]

To me, the advantage goes to a new 500 v3. It is much lighter to carry around and you have a warranty. And if you want to add some extra punch, get an extension cab.

+11 I agree if money is no issue.

 

[parker 71]

In my case money is about the same. What I wanted to know is - do I go better with older head but new v3 115 cab or with combo with new head and 210. Or, what is better, new head or new 115 cab?

 

[Gravedigger Dav]

In my case money is about the same. What I wanted to know is - do I go better with older head but new v3 115 cab or with combo with new head and 210. Or, what is better, new head or new 115 cab?

I still vote for the new 500 combo.

 

[eric_B]

681 pages is a lot to look through.

Ha, yeah. Here they are:

 

[DerekW]

In my case money is about the same. What I wanted to know is - do I go better with older head but new v3 115 cab or with combo with new head and 210. Or, what is better, new head or new 115 cab?

Well with the combo, you're getting a new head and a new cab.

 

[Linnin]

In my case money is about the same. What I wanted to know is - do I go better with older head but new v3 115 cab or with combo with new head and 210. Or, what is better, new head or new 115 cab?

I am the wrong person to ask as I really love my Rumble 350, and I like 15's much better than 10's. You'd need two of the V3 Rumble 115's for anything outside. Small bars you could easily get away with just one. My expensive preference would be a Rumble 500 head on top of a pair of Rumble 115's.

 

[Gravedigger Dav]

Ha, yeah. Here they are:

Thank you!. I will take these with me when I go to check it out.

 

[parker 71]

@Linnin
Yeah, in perfect world we could be two happy sailors on the same boat. I'd chose that same combination with enough money for rig.. But, I got to make compromise. So,
1. combo for the lightness
2. v2 350 + v3 115 (and one more later) for that 15'' magic
I'll go and buy something in the next week or two, than I come for number to wear it proudly

 

[GregT]

I am the wrong person to ask as I really love my Rumble 350, and I like 15's much better than 10's. You'd need two of the V3 Rumble 115's for anything outside. Small bars you could easily get away with just one. My expensive preference would be a Rumble 500 head on top of a pair of Rumble 115's.

I concur with having two 15's for outside. My 200 is never turned up too much inside, but the one time I took it to an outdoor jam, I really could have used a second 115 cabinet!