Fender Rumble v3 40 - First Impressions

[davidchampoux]

Hey Linnin, thanks for your follow-up.

While I'm sure the cab of the 100 can be upgraded easily, I'm 200% positive that the top end of the 10" is brighter (or goes higher in frequencies) than the 12". If you own the 2, just power them on with the same knob settings, then plug a cable in each and just touch the tip of the cables with your fingers. It's fairly obvious in the noise that there's more high end content in the 10".

 

[Linnin]

Hey Linnin, thanks for your follow-up.

While I'm sure the cab of the 100 can be upgraded easily, I'm 200% positive that the top end of the 10" is brighter (or goes higher in frequencies) than the 12". If you own the 2, just power them on with the same knob settings, then plug a cable in each and just touch the tip of the cables with your fingers. It's fairly obvious in the noise that there's more high end content in the 10".

No, not at at all. The Eminence 12" woofer touches 4.5kHz while the 10" goes to about 4kHz. Not much difference in the real world. The 12 goes a bit lower as you might expect, but only by about 5 Hz. The big difference is in the smoother mids and wider dispersion of the 12 over the 10. The difference between 100 watts and 40 watts is also quite pronounced (again as you might well expect). Some folks like the Rumble 40 better, and others the Rumble 100. Viva la diferance'!

 

[davidchampoux]

Man, all of this is on paper... I actually OWN the 2! I have them side by side! How can you argue with that? There's more top end in the 10", period. I guess the 100 roll off at about 3 or 4KHz while the 40 go up to 6 - 7 KHz, and I prefer that, for top end.

 

[Dash Lashes]

HAPPY V3 40 DAY!

 

[AstroSonic]

I only own the 40, but also have a Ampeg B100R with a Faital 10FE200. The Faital has well documented specs, including highs extending to nearly 5 kHz (well dispersed to 4 kHz). The stock Rumble 40 driver has more prominent upper mids and lower highs, while the Faital is smoother through the same range, but extends a bit higher. The Fender's tone is substantially improved by partially lining the cab interior (smoother, with better definition), and by blocking off one port (deeper, better defined bass).

 

[davidchampoux]

Blocking one port sounds like a good idea to me. How do you do that lining stuff??

 

[AstroSonic]

Blocking one port sounds like a good idea to me. How do you do that lining stuff??

See post #15 (on page 1) of this thread. It's very easy, In post #16 I changed out the stock driver for an Eminence S2010. I have been really pleased with that upgrade.

 

[honeyiscool]

See post #15 (on page 1) of this thread. It's very easy, In post #16 I changed out the stock driver for an Eminence S2010. I have been really pleased with that upgrade.

And you have the S2010 with one port blocked, right? I have no problem with the way my 40 sounds, but I'm still interested.

 

[AstroSonic]

And you have the S2010 with one port blocked, right? I have no problem with the way my 40 sounds, but I'm still interested.

The S2010 required different tuning than either one or two stock ports. Use two 2" dia. ports 2 5/8" long. The Parts Express 2" dia. Precision port tubes fit the stock holes perfectly. I tried a range of tunings and preferred this. It happens to be a 'flat' alignment, with an F3 of 56 Hz. Bass is deeper and tighter, notes have better definition, and mids are smoother. The peaked upper mids and lower highs seen in the frequency response graph are not evident off axis. It will take all the power the built-in amp can give it and then some. It also gets significantly louder: the S2010 has 4-5 db higher sensitivity than the stock driver. Remarkably portable, with a total weight of 17 lbs.

I installed a jack plate on the back allowing the amp and speaker to be used separately. It also allows the combo to be used as a cab (with a separate amp), and a backup amp to be used if the internal amp fails. The speaker/cab can be used with much more powerful amps: It trounces my MB115 (volume and tone wise) when used with an MB500 (requires use of a volume control ). Sounds fantastic with an Ashdown CTM-30 (small tube head).

Honestly, for bedroom practice or rehearsal with acoustic groups, the stock driver with lined cab and single port sounds very good. With the S2010 and the internal amp, it can be gigged in small venues with an acoustic group, with plenty of clean headroom.

 

[honeyiscool]

The S2010 required different tuning than either one or two stock ports. Use two 2" dia. ports 2 5/8" long. The Parts Express 2" dia. Precision port tubes fit the stock holes perfectly. I tried a range of tunings and preferred this. It happens to be a 'flat' alignment, with an F3 of 56 Hz. Bass is deeper and tighter, notes have better definition, and mids are smoother. The peaked upper mids and lower highs seen in the frequency response graph are not evident off axis. It will take all the power the built-in amp can give it and then some. It also gets significantly louder: the S2010 has 4-5 db higher sensitivity than the stock driver. Remarkably portable, with a total weight of 17 lbs.

I installed a jack plate on the back allowing the amp and speaker to be used separately. It also allows the combo to be used as a cab (with a separate amp), and a backup amp to be used if the internal amp fails. The speaker/cab can be used with much more powerful amps: It trounces my MB115 (volume and tone wise) when used with an MB500 (requires use of a volume control ). Sounds fantastic with an Ashdown CTM-30 (small tube head).

Honestly, for bedroom practice or rehearsal with acoustic groups, the stock driver with lined cab and single port sounds very good. With the S2010 and the internal amp, it can be gigged in small venues with an acoustic group, with plenty of clean headroom.

Impressive work! Do you get all this using software? It's really interesting stuff.

 

[AstroSonic]

Impressive work! Do you get all this using software? It's really interesting stuff.

I do use software and a 'woofer tester' as tools, but rely on what the changes sound like. I find the software to be a not very reliable indicator of what sounds good and what sounds really good, although it does get you in the ballpark.

 

[AstroSonic]

Update. I really enjoyed the S2010 in the rumble 40 v3, so much so that I decided that I really wanted to build a 210 with S2010's. Out came the S2010 and in went the stock Fender driver. Try as I might, I could not warm up to the performance with the stock driver. Compared to the S2010, it lacked dynamics, was less articulate, was not as smooth and had weak low and mid bass. I reviewed the sims I had run while sorting through prospects for a replacement driver and noticed that the Dayton PA255-8 really stood out. So I ordered one. It did not do all that well with the same tuning as the S2010 (no real surprise). There was a pronounced mid-upper bass peak that really hammered overlapping notes. I did some modeling, tried a few tunings and came up with an Fb of 48 Hz (two, 2 inch diameter, 4 7/16 inch tubes). The 2 inch diameter Precision port tube (available from PartsExpress) fits the stock port openings perfectly. This transformed the tone of the driver. It now has a smooth response, surprisingly clean, well defined highs (as far as they go - around 4kHz), and bass that is articulate and deep (but not over overly pronounced unless you EQ it that way). With the internal amp, fundamentals are very present to G#. While the stock driver runs out of steam above relatively modest volume levels (with the internal amp), the Dayton takes it all in stride. In fact the internal amp sounds smoother and cleaner with the Dayton. The combo can deliver truly impressive tone and volume - it's really quite a transformation. With a GK MB500 (I have added a jack plate to allow other amps to be used - a simple backup scheme), the fundamentals remained strong (but not over prominent) down to 'D' (as low as I tried). I suspect that the internal amp is high passed a bit higher than the MB500. Played (along with music - iPod) to nearly health threatening levels (in a 700 square foot room with a high ceiling) the sound remains clean, clear and powerful. Cone excursion was just visible, and there was no fart-out. For those considering a driver upgrade, the Dayton is a more sensible option than the S2010 ($48 vs $90). IMO, the S2010 has a more refined (smooth and detailed sound) and is a few db more sensitive than the Dayton, and of course weighs about half as much. For upright players, the S2010 is probably the driver of choice. For rock and blues, the Dayton is probably the better choice. The Rumble 40 with the Dayton driver weighs around 23 lbs - still a very easy carry.

 

[jgriffter]

Update. I really enjoyed the S2010 in the rumble 40 v3, so much so that I decided that I really wanted to build a 210 with S2010's. Out came the S2010 and in went the stock Fender driver. Try as I might, I could not warm up to the performance with the stock driver. Compared to the S2010, it lacked dynamics, was less articulate, was not as smooth and had weak low and mid bass. I reviewed the sims I had run while sorting through prospects for a replacement driver and noticed that the Dayton PA255-8 really stood out. So I ordered one. It did not do all that well with the same tuning as the S2010 (no real surprise). There was a pronounced mid-upper bass peak that really hammered overlapping notes. I did some modeling, tried a few tunings and came up with an Fb of 48 Hz (two, 2 inch diameter, 4 7/16 inch tubes). The 2 inch diameter Precision port tube (available from PartsExpress) fits the stock port openings perfectly. This transformed the tone of the driver. It now has a smooth response, surprisingly clean, well defined highs (as far as they go - around 4kHz), and bass that is articulate and deep (but not over overly pronounced unless you EQ it that way). With the internal amp, fundamentals are very present to G#. While the stock driver runs out of steam above relatively modest volume levels (with the internal amp), the Dayton takes it all in stride. In fact the internal amp sounds smoother and cleaner with the Dayton. The combo can deliver truly impressive tone and volume - it's really quite a transformation. With a GK MB500 (I have added a jack plate to allow other amps to be used - a simple backup scheme), the fundamentals remained strong (but not over prominent) down to 'D' (as low as I tried). I suspect that the internal amp is high passed a bit higher than the MB500. Played (along with music - iPod) to nearly health threatening levels (in a 700 square foot room with a high ceiling) the sound remains clean, clear and powerful. Cone excursion was just visible, and there was no fart-out. For those considering a driver upgrade, the Dayton is a more sensible option than the S2010 ($48 vs $90). IMO, the S2010 has a more refined (smooth and detailed sound) and is a few db more sensitive than the Dayton, and of course weighs about half as much. For upright players, the S2010 is probably the driver of choice. For rock and blues, the Dayton is probably the better choice. The Rumble 40 with the Dayton driver weighs around 23 lbs - still a very easy carry.

AstroSonic

Wanted to thank you for the great comments on the Rumble 40 v3. I picked one up and modified the amp as you had laid out with the S2010, 2 5/8 ports and acoustistuff batting in the bottom rear and sides. I also braced the cabinet with the 7/8 dowels vertically and horizontally. The end result was pretty spectacular. The boominess of the amp is completely gone and the notes are clearly defined down to low E. No unwanted overtones but lots of very warm bass. Clearly the cabinet will now handle anything the amp can throw at it - makes me with I could stick a larger Rumble amp in the same cabinet for more power and headroom. I was looking for a small venue lightweight amp for small venues that had some more warmth to it than my current Phil Jones mini set up and I used the Rumble for the first time in a praise band setting with a trusty 4003. The amp did great and I was very pleased with the sound. Thanks for taking the time to post your mods - well worth it and far more than an incremental improvement!

 

[AstroSonic]

AstroSonic

Wanted to thank you for the great comments on the Rumble 40 v3. I picked one up and modified the amp as you had laid out with the S2010, 2 5/8 ports and acoustistuff batting in the bottom rear and sides. I also braced the cabinet with the 7/8 dowels vertically and horizontally. The end result was pretty spectacular. The boominess of the amp is completely gone and the notes are clearly defined down to low E. No unwanted overtones but lots of very warm bass. Clearly the cabinet will now handle anything the amp can throw at it - makes me with I could stick a larger Rumble amp in the same cabinet for more power and headroom. I was looking for a small venue lightweight amp for small venues that had some more warmth to it than my current Phil Jones mini set up and I used the Rumble for the first time in a praise band setting with a trusty 4003. The amp did great and I was very pleased with the sound. Thanks for taking the time to post your mods - well worth it and far more than an incremental improvement!

Glad you are pleased with the result. I think that many players needing a small rig for practice and coffee house (or praise!), and who desire a rich, clean, clear tone will find this mod a good solution. I like the weight, form factor and amp/preamp capabilities of the new Fender Rumbles, but am put off by the 'old school' voicing of the cabs. For me this was a real transformation. I encourage you to consider adding the jack plate. You can then use the cab with different amps, and be able to use a backup head. I have used it with the internal amp for coffee house gigs, and used it outside in a courtyard setting with a micro head. I've also made a Rumble 40 'twin': The Rumble is stacked on top of the twin, and run in parallel connected to a micro head (GK MB500). Principle gains are a little deeper bass, higher efficiency, and a significant improvement in audibility, on stage and in the audience. The two small cabs are a very easy carry. Thanks for the feedback!

 

[Stdjazz4]

I picked out a Rumble 40v3 this weekend.

This will work out fine for living room practice and no matter how far one may progress, it seems like there would always be room for a gadget like this.

 

[bobcruz]

Well it didn't take long to decide that I couldn't live within the rather tight excursion limits of the stock driver in the cab tuned with one port (described in the post above). I like the amp and cab a lot. The amplifier is clean and surprisingly transparent. The onset of clipping is gradual, and, early on, is usable. The cab is well built and has sufficient internal volume to allow some good 10 inch drivers to perform at their best in the bass. After much review and modeling, I chose the Eminence S2010. I tried out (played through) 3 different alignments (cab tunings): high tuned and mildly peaked; medium tuned and flat, and low tuned (EBS). My preference was for the medium tuned alignment (57 Hz: F3 56Hz). Bass is non-peaked, but strong and surprisingly authoritative. It does not sound like a small combo. It has a strong fundamental down to G, but still quite present to F#, with F and E being overwhelmingly harmonic. The entire range is smoother and more articulate than the stock driver. The improvement is almost 'night and day'. This combo is now in a whole different class. It also plays substantially louder (greater driver sensitivity), and actually weighs about 1 1/2 pounds less.

I have a used Rumble 40 incoming and will try out some other drivers and port tunings like you did. Do you still have your notes concerning net internal volume and the tuning of the stock ports with both open and with one closed? If you have those I can start the simulations even before the combo gets here....

 

[bobcruz]

Paging @AstroSonic ...

 

[AstroSonic]

I have a used Rumble 40 incoming and will try out some other drivers and port tunings like you did. Do you still have your notes concerning net internal volume and the tuning of the stock ports with both open and with one closed? If you have those I can start the simulations even before the combo gets here....

Here is the info: 1.12 cf, 74 Hz w. 2 ports, 55 Hz w. 1 port. Note that once you have your amp, you can back calculate the tuning knowing the box volume and port dimensions (inside diameter and length).

I found that while modeling allowed me to determine if a given driver would reasonably work in the box, it told very little beyond that. In other words, modeling won't tell you very much about how the driver/cab will sound. Equally or more important in determining tone is the frequency response of the driver, particularly the upper mids and lower highs. Also, you must know the tone that you prefer (like fat, pillowy, lean and articulate, mid dominant, aggressive, etc.), and you must know (ballpark) what frequency response that corresponds to. I can help you out with driver choice (ballpark anyways), but you must know the tone you want. You also need to know how you intend to use the amp. A more efficient driver can give you an additional 3-6 db (like having 2 - 4 times the stock power - and a driver that can handle it) over the stock driver. People often assume that the ideal/best tone will result from a design that is maximally flat and maximally extended at both ends (bass & treble). IME, most players (but not all) would be disappointed with that.

 

[bobcruz]

Excellent, thanks for the info. I have a couple of drivers I'm familiar with on hand and plan to build up a test box with that internal volume. I'll install a jack plate like you did so I can quickly compare the internal amp's tone playing into the stock speaker (with various tunings and amounts of insulation) and a different speaker in the test box. Should be fun.

 

[bobcruz]

The fun has commenced...the stock speaker was unimpressive but so was the Eminence Legend B102 whizzer I had on hand, so I bought a used S2010 and bingo, it's a winner. I had a couple of ports on hand that tuned the cabinet to 47-48 Hz (calculated by WinISD and confirmed by a grain of rice and sine wave test), which seemed to be the consensus tuning frequency for a 5-string bass using the S2010 in the DIY tweeterless cab thread that Duke started a long time ago. I lined most of the interior with carpet felt and it's still a lively cabinet with the Basslite, and probably won't need a tweeter (but that's the next set of experiments).

I had some panel buzzing even though the walls all sound good when you knock on them. As I looked at the internal construction, the box for the amplifier section braced every panel except the bottom and the baffle, so I put a tight strut between the bottom panel and the amplifier box, but that didn't get rid of the buzzes. Today I glued in a set of struts from top to bottom and side to side, joining in the middle with a strut to the back panel that's also glued to the first strut from the amplifier box to the bottom. That's all drying up now, along with the caulk I used to seal the new ports in place (they're just a bit less in diameter than the originals and needed a gasket). I even drilled four more speaker mounting holes to use wood screws in the four unused openings on the speaker frame to tighten up and brace the baffle using the speaker itself.

When it's all dry, tomorrow I'll mount the speaker and use a crossover to test a couple of tweeters I have on hand (a small fabric dome and a couple of different piezos) with different padding. The tweeters really helped the stock speaker but may not be necessary with the Basslite. Total invested so far is $190, and weight is still about 17 pounds (the Basslite is four ounces less than the stock speaker, which compensates for the struts and felt I added). Stay tuned. Bob