Fender vs. Musicman vs.G&L

[pudgychef]

I think new ideas at Fender went out the door with Leo.

Always have to disagree with this point - Fender has had a pile of new models and ideas - many were not embraced...but plenty were tried post Leo..

Performer
Katana
Starcaster Bass
Zone (at least a couple different Zone labelled designs)
Roscoe Beck
Stu Hamm Urge
Dimension
Modern Player Tele + BlackTop
Jaguar Bass
Prophecy
That Alien Ant Farm guy bass

 

[Frank77]

I remember playing my first G&L at a shop in Ottawa....but I can't recall which it was, other than that I knew one dealer for a while in Hamilton, Ont - I would like to spec a G&L build someday...11 radius, 1.65 nut P (Lb100?) with matching headstock. Not sure where else I could get that combo.

Yes, the LB-100 is G&L's take on the p-bass (it's also the bass in my avatar). When I was looking for a passive 4-string, I clearly preferred the sound of the split-coil pickup, but didn't really agree with the wider neck of a p-bass. I didn't care much for the jazz bass, but I liked its neck better...so I ended up ordering a LB-100 with a 12'' radius neck, 1.5'' wide at the nut. For me it truly is the best of both worlds!

 

[dougjwray]

I agree with the theories that they've always lacked a prominent user, and that they lack the "American icon" magic (like Marlboro cigarettes or Harley Davidson motorcycles). (Or Fender basses.)
I had a very early (1981) L2000 for awhile, and while it was magnificently constructed, I never loved the sounds I could get out of it. The pickups were too hi-fi and modern for me, and the mahogany body was too dark. The effect was like super-clean, hopped-up electronics heroically but vainly dragging around a dead body, even in passive mode. In comparison, even the cheapest passive Squier or SX P-Bass or Jazz Bass was more pure, organic and alive. That was my experience, anyway. Later on, G&L switched to alder or ash, and also changed their electronics, but I believe the pickups remained the same.

 

[jd56hawk]

Hello,

I've been looking at g&l basses for a while. Specifically the l-2500 and I have yet to find one that functions correctly

Is it me, or are there qa issues?

It's certainly not the bass.

 

[JTE]

I had a very early (1981) L2000 for awhile, and while it was magnificently constructed, I never loved the sounds I could get out of it. The pickups were too hi-fi and modern for me, and the mahogany body was too dark. The effect was like super-clean, hopped-up electronics heroically but vainly dragging around a dead body, even in passive mode. In comparison, even the cheapest passive Squier or SX P-Bass or Jazz Bass was more pure, organic and alive. That was my experience, anyway. Later on, G&L switched to alder or ash, and also changed their electronics, but I believe the pickups remained the same.

They started with both ash and mahogany bodies for both basses and guitars. The 'hog ones were a noticeably darker but the ash ones were very balanced. The best G&L I ever played was an ash/ebony L-1000 from the first batch we got as a dealer ca. 1981 or '82

 

[mesaplayer83]

I also have an SB-1, one of the best P basses ever made.

In your opinion, that is... I had an SB-1, flipped it, and don't miss it in the least... In *my* opinion, it didn't sound like a P bass is supposed to sound like, and between the body shape and headstock, I thought it was a bit on the ugly side... As a player, it didn't play any better than at least a half dozen Fender P basses I've owned...

 

[mesaplayer83]

In other words ... a Jack of all trade master of none unlike the Fender P, J and EBMM Stingray.

Like the Yamaha, Carvin/Kiesel and a bunch of other, they are great basses, almost like cameleon but ultimately, they have no personality unlike a Fender P,J or EBMM or even Warwick or Rickenbacker

I couldn't have said it better - I've owned an SB-1, an ASAT bass, and currently own an '83 L2000 - arguably one of G&L's "best ever"... Although the '83 L2k is a fine instrument, and I'm definitely keeping it, my Fenders have seen the bulk of my gigging time since I got it, and will continue to do so... To me, the "G&L tone" is just a bit too generic for my tastes...

 

[mesaplayer83]

I have Fender and Music Man basses. I prefer Music Man. Mostly it’s the tighter nut and string spacing on five string basses. But it’s also the soloed bridge humbucker p’up and active electronics that work for me. I also think the component and build quality is better. Now, my StingRays and Bongo will never get a Jazz or P tone, so there’s that. I’ve never seen a G&L five-string bass in the wild to try, and see nothing on their website that compels me to seek them out. Now, a five-string ASAT, that would be another thing altogether. Just my opinion. YMMV, of course.

I have basses from all 3 companies, and although several Fender P basses are my "main squeeze", I never cared for Fender's 5 strings - and get on MUCH better with EBMM when it comes to 5ers...

Regarding a 5 string ASAT - the 4 string ASAT I had was a real neck diver - I can't imagine a 5 string version would be any better in that regard... FWIW, I'm not one to be sensitive about neck dive - I own and play a Gibson T-bird just fine...The ASAT was just not comfortable to play - sure looked great, though, lol...

 

[mesaplayer83]

, but the new G&Ls I've played remind me of Taylor acoustic guitars- very well made, nice designs, good ideas, and utterly unremarkable.

The P, J and MM brought something truly unique to the table. G&L didn’t.

The above is kind of how I see it - the P, J, and 'ray are all iconic basses for good reason - IMO, nothing G&L has ever put out could be described as being iconic...

 

[mesaplayer83]

A picture I just took:

 

[bigtone23]

The P, J and MM brought something truly unique to the table. G&L didn’t.

It's true that those 3 are the icons. G&L's strength comes in a great consistency and value with the designs that are really just their take on the icons. Most wouldn't have a huge issue with a LB100, JB2 or L1500 if they had to play them.
The MFD pickups are killer and have huge fans.
I do love my El Toro and the L2000 (with the K mod) may be the most versatile bass on the planet.

 

[Iridescentone]

$0.02....

I've owned all the iconic basses being discussed here, in multiples. And perhaps some not yet mentioned in this thread. Along with virtually every G&L model in multiples, starting with two brand new 1980 L-1000's.

The L-1000 was clearly an advancement in passive basses, and definitely a different sounding bass than any of Leo's previous creations. Anyone with functioning ears should be able to hear the difference.

IME, the reason the L-1000 never became an "iconic" bass is that it arrived late to the party, and few "iconic" players used them. Dee Murray and Rocco Prestia come to mind, but any mega-stars?

That said, there's also the fact that virtually any bass can be EQ'd, effected, and otherwise massaged in a studio to sound like any other bass. What does that mean? It means that just by "listening" to recorded music, no one can know with absolute certainty exactly what bass was used. One exception might be the 4001 pushed to its extremes. But even the sound of that iconic bass can be closely replicated by savvy engineers.

Iconic, shmiconic.

 

[Antisyzygy]

In your opinion, that is... I had an SB-1, flipped it, and don't miss it in the least... In *my* opinion, it didn't sound like a P bass is supposed to sound like, and between the body shape and headstock, I thought it was a bit on the ugly side... As a player, it didn't play any better than at least a half dozen Fender P basses I've owned...

Of course it’s my opinion. That’s all anyone ever shares here.

I think the headstock being “ugly” is also up to the eye of the beholder. More of a what you’re used to being challenged type of thing rather than being objectively disgusting or something

As far as playability it’s going to be the same as any other high quality bass. The “one of the best” part I think comes from the changes G&L made that makes their models unique. They make good products and I like the bridge and fretwork.

The sound would be different with a different pickup. The MFDs are hifi so if you’re looking for a vintage tone that ain’t it. It’s not unheard of for people to prefer different pickups even if they’re playing a Fender Precision bass.

 

[dedpool1052]

The sound would be different with a different pickup. The MFDs are hifi so if you’re looking for a vintage tone that ain’t it. It’s not unheard of for people to prefer different pickups even if they’re playing a Fender Precision bass.

Another thing to mention, is the pickup placement.
The split MFD in the SB-1/2 basses is 3/8" closer to the bridge than your standard p.
The original LB-100 had this placement as well. The reissue LB-100 used this for a
couple of years before being moved into the "correct" P spot.

 

[mesaplayer83]

Of course it’s my opinion. That’s all anyone ever shares here.

I think the headstock being “ugly” is also up to the eye of the beholder. More of a what you’re used to being challenged type of thing rather than being objectively disgusting or something

As far as playability it’s going to be the same as any other high quality bass. The “one of the best” part I think comes from the changes G&L made that makes their models unique. They make good products and I like the bridge and fretwork.

The sound would be different with a different pickup. The MFDs are hifi so if you’re looking for a vintage tone that ain’t it. It’s not unheard of for people to prefer different pickups even if they’re playing a Fender Precision bass.

Actually, facts are stated here all the time, and you posted as if you were stating a fact - just sayin'... The rest of your post I'm quoting is kind of spin to defend your position, which I suppose is to be expected... As always, to each his or her own I say...

 

[mesaplayer83]

Another thing to mention, is the pickup placement.
The split MFD in the SB-1/2 basses is 3/8" closer to the bridge than your standard p.
The original LB-100 had this placement as well. The reissue LB-100 used this for a
couple of years before being moved into the "correct" P spot.

Thanks for pointing that out - to me, the SB-1 was somewhat of an attempt to make a P Bass, without actually doing so: it certainly didn't sound like any P Bass I ever played, and I thought the headstock and body shape might grow on me, but it didn't...

I would also say that for what *some* are calling "one of the best P Basses ever made", the market certainly spoke differently on the matter...

 

[SleepyShark]

To me, Fenders just feel "right".

I love Musicman basses, I love G&L basses; great instruments all around. But Fenders, especially Jazz basses, just have that secret ingredient. They feel great, they sound great, they've got the history.

I respect anyone's opinion on either brand, but my heart is with Fender for sure.

 

[GlennRH]

Fender basses were designed aiming for low bridge mass and small bridge surface area. The range of playing techniques was assumed to focus on sounding like an upright acoustic bass. The Precision was designed to create a market for a new type of instrument: a hybrid between solid-body electric guitar (e.g. Telecaster) and upright acoustic bass. The Jazz was designed for a more mature, still-developing market for a still-new type of instrument (comparable to the Strat after the Tele).

MusicMan basses were designed with the intention of not getting sued by the owners of Fender trademarks. Low bridge mass was no longer aimed for. Large bridge surface area was aimed for. Hot output and greater tone control on the instrument were advancements that bassists would appreciate. Pickup design and placement were chosen to accommodate a wider range of playing techniques and tonal objectives for a more mature market that would both value and seek alternatives to P and J designs.

G&L basses were designed with the intention of advancing from Fender and MusicMan designs: no lawsuits; high-mass, high-surface-area bridges set into the body; stiffer necks; hotter pickups; greater tonal control on the instrument for some models; more models. G&L did not begin to make any instruments with alnico pickups 'til years after Mr Fender passed away - MFD pickups only while both George and Leo were around. G&Ls had to be good enough to attract bassists looking for instruments evolved beyond Fender and MusicMan designs in a more mature and more competitive market.

 

[A-Ro]

Fender basses were designed aiming for low bridge mass and small bridge surface area. The range of playing techniques was assumed to focus on sounding like an upright acoustic bass. The Precision was designed to create a market for a new type of instrument: a hybrid between solid-body electric guitar (e.g. Telecaster) and upright acoustic bass. The Jazz was designed for a more mature, still-developing market for a still-new type of instrument (comparable to the Strat after the Tele).

MusicMan basses were designed with the intention of not getting sued by the owners of Fender trademarks. Low bridge mass was no longer aimed for. Large bridge surface area was aimed for. Hot output and greater tone control on the instrument were advancements that bassists would appreciate. Pickup design and placement were chosen to accommodate a wider range of playing techniques and tonal objectives for a more mature market.

G&L basses were designed with the intention of advancing from Fender and MusicMan designs: no lawsuits; high-mass, high-surface-area bridges set into the body; stiffer necks; hotter pickups; greater tonal control on the instrument for some models; more models. G&L did not begin to make any instruments with alnico pickups 'til years after Mr Fender passed away - MFD pickups only while both George an Leo were around. They had to be good enough to attract people looking for instruments evolved beyond Fender and MusicMan designs in a more mature and more competitive market.

Very well said!

 

[armybass]

This thread has made me take a fresh look at G&L and I’m grateful. A few years ago I went on a Fender AVRI binge and was quite happy. Then once I found out that Greg at Rocket Music was a Music Man dealer I sold off the Fenders and have spent the past year special ordering a slew of EBMM Basses that I’ve always wanted. I’m just about done with my Music Man collection and the new CLF L2000 reissues have turned my attention to G&L. This timely thread helped push me in the direction of ordering the G&Ls I’ve always wanted. Ordered an LB100 yesterday and plan on getting a few more over the course of the year.