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Figuring out right strings for weird tuning

Gully Foyle

Gully Foyle

Sep 28, 2014
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Near Boston
#1
So, bear with me.

I want to tune a 32" scale bass to be in a cello range, but still in 4ths for convenience. So, I think from low to high the strings would be C2, F2, A#/Bb3, D#/Eb3, right?

Can anyone make recommendations about gauges that would be appropriate? I would prefer to do it in flats. And recc's for manufacturer for single strings in the right gauges for this tuning?

Thanks for your forbearance, lol
 
#2
Gully Foyle said:
So, bear with me.

I want to tune a 32" scale bass to be in a cello range, but still in 4ths for convenience. So, I think from low to high the strings would be C2, F2, A#/Bb3, D#/Eb3, right?

Can anyone make recommendations about gauges that would be appropriate? I would prefer to do it in flats. And recc's for manufacturer for single strings in the right gauges for this tuning?

Thanks for your forbearance, lol
Click to expand...
The Bb string should be Bb2 pitch. The other pitches are correct.
 
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#4
Gully Foyle said:
Wouldn’t Bb2 be below C2? I could be wrong I admit, but i think the notes of the F2 string would be F#2, G2, G#/Ab3, A3, A#/Bb3?
Click to expand...
Play C2 on lowest string, than
C#2,D2,D#2,E2. Switch to F string
Play F2,F#2,G2,G#2,A2. Switch to Bb string.
Play Bb2,B2,C3,C#3,D3. Switch to Eb string.
Play Eb3,E3,F3 and all subsequent pitches on that string till highest pitch on that string. This exercise plays all pitches on your fretboard without unisons.
 
#5
Ok - self taught no theory instruction error - I assumed the octave numbers changed on the G-A vs. each C.

So far no luck finding 32" singles that might work. D'Addario's string tension pro tool let me find a decently balanced set, but only one of the strings is actually available. Actually - set is available in 34" scale, hm. Wind alot of full diameter onto posts. Knew finding med scale would be hard.
 
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#6
Gully Foyle said:
So, bear with me.

I want to tune a 32" scale bass to be in a cello range, but still in 4ths for convenience. So, I think from low to high the strings would be C2, F2, A#/Bb3, D#/Eb3, right?

Can anyone make recommendations about gauges that would be appropriate? I would prefer to do it in flats. And recc's for manufacturer for single strings in the right gauges for this tuning?

Thanks for your forbearance, lol
Click to expand...
Look no further than single D'Addario Chromes for electric guitar (plus some washers to keep their small ball-ends from escaping the bridge) :
Invalid Link Removed

I suggest you first get them in the following five gauges:
022w - 030 - 040 - 056 - 075
These, minus the largest 075, will have a cello-esque (or light-gauge acoustic guitar) tension at your target tuning (C2-eb3), whereas they'll be in long-scale bass-guitar tension, at the same tuning, if you'll discard the thinnest (022) instead.

For something smack-dab in the middle, you could get these four other gauges:
024w - 035 - 048 - 065.

The above suggestions, in terms of proportions between the strings in the set, stand (but by all means adjust to taste if you want)
even in case you decide to get something else other than guitar Chromes.
I (lightly) insist you should give them a fair consideration: beside being readily available in singles, I find they sound very good for bass-style plucking, and they're cheaper than bass flatwound singles.
Oh, and: yes, they should be long enough for 32" scale - their winding is about 38" long, and they've got three or four extra inches of bare core - unless the headstock is 4-in-line.


Happy experimenting, and report back if you have the time!
 
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#7
HaphAsSard said:
Look no further than single D'Addario Chromes for electric guitar (plus some washers to keep their small ball-ends from escaping the bridge) :
Invalid Link Removed

I suggest you first get them in the following five gauges:
022w - 030 - 040 - 056 - 075
These, minus the largest 075, will have a cello-esque (or light-gauge acoustic guitar) tension at your target tuning (C2-eb3), whereas they'll be in long-scale bass-guitar tension, at the same tuning, if you'll discard the thinnest (022) instead.

For something smack-dab in the middle, you could get these four other gauges:
024w - 035 - 048 - 065.

The above suggestions, in terms of proportions between the strings in the set, stand (but by all means adjust to taste if you want)
even in case you decide to get something else other than guitar Chromes.
I (lightly) insist you should give them a fair consideration: beside being readily available in singles, I find they sound very good for bass-style plucking, and they're cheaper than bass flatwound singles.
Oh, and: yes, they should be long enough for 32" scale - their winding is about 38" long, and they've got three or four extra inches of bare core - unless the headstock is 4-in-line.


Happy experimenting, and report back if you have the time!
Click to expand...
Thanks for the info my friend!

The headstock is 4-in-line. But I think i'll see what happens. Will report back. Also just picked up a 6 string set of RS77s planning on using the 4 lightest - see how that goes as well.
 
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#8
Regarding range of the 4ths tuning vs the Cello range in 5ths. The Cello without using harmonics is C2 to A5 ( up to C6 using harmonics).
If your bass has only 21 pitches on the highest string ( open string + 20 equal tempered pitches) and you tuned in 4ths the range would be C2 to B4. You would lack the Cello pitches C5 to A5 (10 pitches)
If your bass has 25 pitches on the highest string, you will have E5 to A5 (6 pitches) missing and so on and so forth depending on the number of fret/ fret positions on the bass in question
 
#9
Gully Foyle said:
Thanks for the info my friend!

The headstock is 4-in-line. But I think i'll see what happens. Will report back. Also just picked up a 6 string set of RS77s planning on using the 4 lightest - see how that goes as well.
Click to expand...
I forgot to add (in time)
Whatever you decide getting it doesn't have to be medium-scale. In my experience even a 075 flatwound string is flexible enough to be wound a full gauge onto even a guitar-style, thin tuning post. Potential trouble starts at larger diameters than that, in a gauge territory that doesn't encroach the one entailed in what you're trying to do.
 
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#10
Prodigus Filius said:
Regarding range of the 4ths tuning vs the Cello range in 5ths. The Cello without using harmonics is C2 to A5 ( up to C6 using harmonics).
If your bass has only 21 pitches on the highest string ( open string + 20 equal tempered pitches) and you tuned in 4ths the range would be C2 to B4. You would lack the Cello pitches C5 to A5 (10 pitches)
If your bass has 25 pitches on the highest string, you will have E5 to A5 (6 pitches) missing and so on and so forth depending on the number of fret/ fret positions on the bass in question
Click to expand...
Yes, I know I am limiting my range by going in 4ths - but this is an experiment, and I want to see how i like it before learning all new note positions, appreciate the heads up though.
 
#11
HaphAsSard said:
I forgot to add (in time)
Whatever you decide getting it doesn't have to be medium-scale. In my experience even a 075 flatwound string is flexible enough to be wound a full gauge onto even a guitar-style, thin tuning post. Potential trouble starts at larger diameters than that, in a gauge territory that doesn't encroach the one entailed in what you're trying to do.
Click to expand...
Yes, the Rotos I ordered are long scale. I just decided to take a leap of faith on it, even though I think flats are less amenable to full diameter windings than rounds (could be mistaken, but that rings a bell to me.)

I any event, I am going to demo both approaches and see whats what.
 
#12
Gully Foyle said:
Yes, the Rotos I ordered are long scale. I just decided to take a leap of faith on it, even though I think flats are less amenable to full diameter windings than rounds (could be mistaken, but that rings a bell to me.)
Click to expand...
I acknowledged that in my post: it is however dependent on the flexibility of a given string, which, in turn, is inherent (rooted in the details of its construction) to a point, but also determined by gauge to a great extent.
In other words: best avoided for low B strings, iffy for E's (especially La Bellas since they make a big fuss of it), A's are in the transition area IME, anything lighter is halal.
 
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#13
HaphAsSard said:
I acknowledged that in my post: it is however dependent on the flexibility of a given string. Best avoided for low B strings, iffy for E's (especially La Bellas since they make a big fuss of it), A's are in the transition area IME, anything lighter is halal.
Click to expand...
I have scars from Ernie Ball Cobalt Flats breaking on 33".

My original idea was TI's - but not spending that kind of cash until concept proven. They would certainly be flexible enough, but might need crimping.
 
#14
Gully Foyle said:
Thanks for the info my friend!

The headstock is 4-in-line. But I think i'll see what happens. Will report back. Also just picked up a 6 string set of RS77s planning on using the 4 lightest - see how that goes as well.
Click to expand...
If you use the 30 45 65 85 from the 6 string RS77 set, you will be subjecting the neck of your bass to around 10lbf more than what 50 75 95 110 Roto 77’s in E standard on a 34” scale bass.
Here are the stats for your tuning using the strings you have opted for

CFBbEb tuning 32” Scale

Gauges 30 45 65 85

C2/.085/67.12lbf
F2/.065/73.49lbf
Bb2/.045/71.98lbf
Eb3/.030/49.75lbf

TT = 263.34lbf

IMHO your gauges need reduction and that would mean strings other than the Rotosound
 
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#15
Prodigus Filius said:
If you use the 30 45 65 85 from the 6 string RS77 set, you will be subjecting the neck of your bass to around 10lbf more than what 50 75 95 110 Roto 77’s in E standard on a 34” scale bass.
Here are the stats for your tuning using the strings you have opted for

CFBbEb tuning 32” Scale

Gauges 30 45 65 85

C2/.085/67.12lbf
F2/.065/73.49lbf
Bb2/.045/71.98lbf
Eb3/.030/49.75lbf

TT = 263.34lbf

IMHO your gauges need reduction and that would mean strings other than the Rotosound
Click to expand...
I appreciate your feedback - in my mind I figured (and you can tell I am not a math/science guy, I'm a word guy) that given that these were long-scale, the would be floppy if tuned to their normal pitches on a shorter scale, and thus tuning them up a few half steps would offset that and arrive more or less at ~50-60 lbs per string that the rotos usually put on the neck. You have them significantly higher, and I am sure you are right, but I am not sure why.
 
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#16
Gully Foyle said:
I appreciate your feedback - in my mind I figured (and you can tell I am not a math/science guy, I'm a word guy) that given that these were long-scale, the would be floppy if tuned to their normal pitches on a shorter scale, and thus tuning them up a few half steps would offset that and arrive more or less at ~50-60 lbs per string that the rotos usually put on the neck. You have them significantly higher, and I am sure you are right, but I am not sure why.
Click to expand...
If tensions are kept equal, 32" scale is the equivalent of capoing that subset of Rotoes (whose 'intended' tuning is ADGC) at the 1st fret.
However, you're not tuning them to Bb-Eb-Ab-Db, but a whole tone higher than that. Roughly 25% more tension.
 
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#17
Despite the price, using the 4 highest string gauges 33 43 56 70 from long scale 6 string JF346 set would be a possible good option
TI Jazz Flats

CFBbEb tuning 32” Scale

Gauges 33 43 56 70

C2/.070/39.20lbf
F2/.056/46.93lbf
Bb2/.043/46.38lbf
Eb3/.033/47.76lbf

TT = 180.27lbf

Comparable singles overall tension wise from GHS

GHS Precision flats
CFBbEb tuning 32” Scale

Gauges 28 45 55 70

C2/.070/43.72lbf
F2/.055/48.10lbf
Bb2/.045/51.98lbf
Eb3/.028/43.21lbf


TT = 187.01lbf

TI JF346
Invalid Link Removed

GHS Precision flat singles. Cost you around 50usd for the gauges 28 45 55 70. Heaps cheaper than the TI set mentioned

www.ghsstrings.com

Singles - Bass Precision Flats

Long revered as the "Sound of Chocolate," Precision Flats™ sound and feel like rock and roll history! Stainless steel ribbon wire i...
www.ghsstrings.com www.ghsstrings.com
 
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