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Fill In Gig: Charge More or Equal Cut?
- Thread starter john_g
- Start date
I pay subs more. We aren't making a living on gigs and for someone to change their schedule, learn our dumb songs and put up with whatever it is we do is worth a few bucks extra.
This was our view in my last few bands...we recognized that the person is doing us a big favor and realized that its work to get up to speed so we payed them a bit more. Hence, my OP.
Depending on how many dollars you're dealing with, I think it would be fine to ask for more.
like i said, im not going back now to ask for more at this point, its more of a "going forward" thing. And, I dont want to create drama over a few bucks but I think its best to state a flat fee and if it comes to it, i might work with them on the price if its a lower paying gig.
I take an equal cut when I sub. But if the prep is too much work and/or I'm not given enough advance notice then I'll just say "sorry I'm not available that day".
i will give my take from the other perspective. We have a fill in guitar player who plays with us pretty steady basis as the regular guitar players wife is a Bit@@ and has to bless his schedule. so the fill in is what i would call a pro. toured with the Monkeys and David Cassidy for over a decade. So he gets a premium for the gigs. and it comes out of the rest of us. Half the band is OK and half is pretty pissed about it. I am on the fence most of the time, usually ok as long as i get an acceptable amount after.....
1. It's a bit unethical to agree to do a job for $x and then after the agreement has been made tell them that you want $x+$n unless something has changed that change the terms of the agreement, such as you originally agreed upon a one hour set and now it's a three hour show. Changing the price after the negotiation was made is sort of like 'bait and switch'. Did you agree upon the price before knowing the set list? If so, the lesson learned for the future is: Understand the scope before setting a price.
2. Regardless of the answer to the above, you can always say "I know we had an agreement that I would do this for $x, and I am perfectly willing to stick to the agreement. But I just wanted to let you know that this has turned out to be WAY more work than I had expected, because I had expected I would need to learn x new tunes and I actually have to spend x hours learning x new tunes, which has really impacted my life (give examples of things you had to sacrifice.) So if you think it would be reasonable to throw me a few extra bucks to help compensate for all this extra unexpected time I have had to spend on this, I would be infinitely grateful. If not, that's cool, I understand. Either way, this was a great opportunity for me to learn a bunch of new tunes, and I am happy to have the opportunity to help you out. I just wasn't quite prepared to have to put so much of my life on hold to cram and learn all these tunes so quickly."
It’s not unusual to pay subs more.
I did a number of sub gigs this summer. One band just names a price and I accept or not. The other asks me what I want for the gig.
I put a lot of time into learning material, but I love playing, so it’s all good!
By the same token:
Hiring a sub and playing the gig for less than the usual split is still more money in your pocket than not hiring a sub, having to cancel the gig, and getting paid nothing.
Then there’s the potential loss of future revenues if you leave the venue or customer scrambling to find another band at the last minute. It’s important to be seen as reliable. Integrity equals longevity. And word tends to gets around fast if you’re not.
So depending in the situation, sometimes it may even be worth it to take a loss rather than not deliver.
Smart business means taking the long view. You’re not ever going to be able to retire on what you make on a single job. So protecting your reputation and having your contingency plans in place is more important than what you make off any single job.
Nearly every sub job I've ever done was for equal cut. It seems to pretty much be the standard, at least in our local scene. I did one gig once for a stated amount. I thought the amount was fine (more than the standard $100/gig) and agreed to do it. I, too, learned a lot of material for that gig, some in a genre I simply don't care for. I had a great time at that gig. However, I found out a few weeks later what the usual "equal cut" is for that band, and it was a lot more than I got by almost double. They intentionally underpaid me, compared to their regular bass player, so the rest of the band could make more money. I simply didn't accept any more sub offers from that band.
sub is accepted before we take the gig. we usually book 80% of the gigs for the year by feb so absolutely no screwing the venues. once or twice the sub had to fly to somewhere to fill in for other bands (Rick Springfield) so he got us a pro replacement.
Tell him you’ll play the gig but they can keep the money. The knowledge of learning and playing songs you didn’t know before AND makin music with other people who wanna play music is you your true reward.
So Anyway, even if they gave you an extra share, it probably wouldn't cover a decent hourly rate for all the time spent.
When I learn songs to sub, I think of it as additional inventory for my next gig. Plus I will have a chord sheet with me for the new songs. Plus you're helping a band mate.
But I wouldn't ask for more money than the other members.
When I learn songs to sub, I think of it as additional inventory for my next gig. Plus I will have a chord sheet with me for the new songs. Plus you're helping a band mate.
But I wouldn't ask for more money than the other members.
I never take a gig, sub or otherwise, without knowing what it pays. If it's a benefit and pays nothing, that's fine as long as I know going in. This policy allows me to turn down anything that involves the door, a cut of the door, a percentage of the gate, or anything like that. If the dollar amount isn't enough, I don't argue or negotiate, I just don't take the gig. As I get older, I feel my time is more valuable than it was when I was 20 or 25...
I have paid a sub more than members. I've worked as a sub making more than members. If I said I would play a gig for a cut, I'm playing it for a cut. I would ask what the cut was first, and I would help a buddy for low pay. The end.
This is essentially how it was put to me...i either fill in or they dont get to play the gig. So, it saves the gig and potential gigs going forward at this venue. Since Im in a band with the guitarist this was all pretty informal compared to getting a call from some band you might kinda sorta know the drummer. In a case like that, I wouldve went into business man mode and negotiated.
You already agreed to do the gig for an equal share, so going back to ask for more because you didn't do your homework beforehand would certainly reflect poorly on you.
I do subs for an equal share regardless of the amount of material I have to learn. After all, I am getting some value in that they called me... and I will learn the songs I don't already know and put them to use on future gigs... and they will also be inconvenienced having to do things different to accommodate me. In other words, just because I'm subbing doesn't mean it's all about me.
Moreover, keeping my price lower helps build my reputation and leads to a higher probability of callbacks.
I do subs for an equal share regardless of the amount of material I have to learn. After all, I am getting some value in that they called me... and I will learn the songs I don't already know and put them to use on future gigs... and they will also be inconvenienced having to do things different to accommodate me. In other words, just because I'm subbing doesn't mean it's all about me.
Moreover, keeping my price lower helps build my reputation and leads to a higher probability of callbacks.
