Yes, if you would like getting more sub work with them or anyone else in the future. If the price was settled for this gig, that's that. In the future you can try pricing differently.
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Fill In Gig: Charge More or Equal Cut?
- Thread starter john_g
- Start date
For Me, And I Get Asked To Sub A Lot, I Ask Where The Gig Is, A Copy Of Set List, The Start And End Time, And How Much. Once I Get That Info, I let Them Know If Fee Is Fair Or If I Will Require More Due To Travel Time, Etc. Lots Of Musicians In My Area Have Set Fee's That They Operate Under, Unless It's A Private Gig Or Casino Gig, Most Venues Around Here Pay Pretty Much The Same. My Band Stay's Busy So I'm Fortunate, When We Get A Day Off, I Rest.
I used to do a lot of subbing and always viewed learning new songs as an investment in my future. I prepared and cataloged cheat sheets for every one, ready to deploy should the need ever arise.
And there you have your answer I believe.
If you need to justify, think of it like this - time spent learning a song is almost never wasted, and you'll do a great job and be in good shape should it arise again.mike
devnulljp
Supporting Member
I sub gigs by puttingcharts/notes on my ipad, and keep it within eyeshot (is that a word?) so I can crib off it if needbe. Takes the heat off learning 40 songs in 3 days. Must work OK, as I'm playing with 4 acts at a local festival here, back to back, with a gig playing with one of my regular bands later that same night too.
+1
One of my bands uses a sub drummer when needed. His rate is $100 for the gig. He gets his $100 whether the gig pays $250 or $1250. And we're glad to have him. He shows up prepared, on time and ready to play.
What’s “fair” is whatever the parties agree to. If there’s a disconnect between the offer and asking price there are five possible outcomes:
In this case I have two ways of seeing it.
1. If I asked somebody to do something or take on a responsibility I knew they normally wouldn’t be doing, and I knew they’d needed some additional education or resources to perform it, I’d be willing to pay part of what it cost to get them up to speed.
Example: I wanted a highly trusted general office worker to take on managing bookkeeping, I’d pay for them to take a basic adult ed financial accounting course.
2. If I were hiring someone to perform a task that was part of their usual line of work, and they needed to purchase something they didn’t have but also could use for their own future work, I’d be less inclined to pay for it.
Example: I want to hire someone to build and install some cabinets. He says he needs to get a better table saw, and he’ll do it if I also split the cost of the new saw with him on top of the quote for the cabinets, I’d decline and just get someone else.
- Buyer accepts asking price
- Seller accepts the buyer’s offer
- Buyer and Seller negotiate a mutually agreeable price
- Buyer withdraws offer
- Seller walks away
In this case I have two ways of seeing it.
1. If I asked somebody to do something or take on a responsibility I knew they normally wouldn’t be doing, and I knew they’d needed some additional education or resources to perform it, I’d be willing to pay part of what it cost to get them up to speed.
Example: I wanted a highly trusted general office worker to take on managing bookkeeping, I’d pay for them to take a basic adult ed financial accounting course.
2. If I were hiring someone to perform a task that was part of their usual line of work, and they needed to purchase something they didn’t have but also could use for their own future work, I’d be less inclined to pay for it.
Example: I want to hire someone to build and install some cabinets. He says he needs to get a better table saw, and he’ll do it if I also split the cost of the new saw with him on top of the quote for the cabinets, I’d decline and just get someone else.
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I find out what the pay for ME is before I learn the songs or otherwise commit.
It does not matter to me what the band is getting paid. Know what it is up front.
I've been screwed once...just once. I used to get called to sub for a corporate sponsored band. Lots of nice clean gigs, decent pay. Always got fed. No hassle except they need your SSN to process pay and taxes.
They needed me to play an outdoor gig at a marathon half-way point.
That meant I had to get up at about 4:30am, set up in a tent outside in the damp cold darkness, only played about 2- hour's worth of songs, but had to be there for about 4 hours from when the first runners started showing up until the walking dead made it to the half.
Didn't get paid. "Oh, it was a benefit gig for charity. Didn't he tell you?"
Blocked that number.
It does not matter to me what the band is getting paid. Know what it is up front.
I've been screwed once...just once. I used to get called to sub for a corporate sponsored band. Lots of nice clean gigs, decent pay. Always got fed. No hassle except they need your SSN to process pay and taxes.
They needed me to play an outdoor gig at a marathon half-way point.
That meant I had to get up at about 4:30am, set up in a tent outside in the damp cold darkness, only played about 2- hour's worth of songs, but had to be there for about 4 hours from when the first runners started showing up until the walking dead made it to the half.
Didn't get paid. "Oh, it was a benefit gig for charity. Didn't he tell you?"
Blocked that number.
I simply ask what the gig pays and accept or decline based on that. It’s none of my business as a hired gun what the band members are making or the BL grabs off the top. Or whether or not it’s short notice.
If I think I can handle the assignment - and I will get what I want in terms of pay for doing it - then it’s a deal.
I’m being hired to do a job - not go into business with the person hiring me.
Depends, If they are offering less than I normally get and I need to bone up on a lot of their material I will ask for at least $100.
buldog5151bass
Kibble, milkbones, and P Basses. And redheads.
Depends on the gig (is an equal cut $50 or $250?), depends on the setlist (how much work did you have to do to prep), depends on your relationship with the bandleader. Is it worth complaining for $20?
I realize this sounds intuitive, but it doesn't work. People are trained to expect whatever deal you give them up front. You have to establish your standard fee at the beginning or risk an argument when you try to raise it later.
Don't devalue yourself to get into a new situation unless the whole deal is laid out up front ("I'll do the first gig for X, then subsequent gigs for Y"). Charge what the market bears for you.
Promotional rates work in some businesses, like cable TV and credit cards. All of those are subscription models where you just pay the monthly fee and probably don't notice when it goes up and you start paying $24/month for HBO instead of $6.
In my market, the normal sub rate is $100 per appearance, which usually includes rehearsals beyond the first one.
it wasn't an "intuitive" suggestion: it was suggested from personal experience. but thanks for your analysis!
Good luck, sometimes $300 -$400 is what the whole band makes LOL!
I agree a sub should be fairly compensated when there is extra work involved. Those gigs tend to be more stressful as well.
Don't be offended. I'm not trying to devalue your advice or make you seem small. I'm just telling the OP what he can expect if he goes down the road you recommended.it wasn't an "intuitive" suggestion: it was suggested from personal experience. but thanks for your analysis!
I don't know you and you don't know me. Let's not try to compete on world experience.
Another vote for equal cut. Consider it networking and an "Introductory Special".
Next time my first question would be "How much?" and if it's less that $100 I'd say "Thanks, but I'll pass."
Next time my first question would be "How much?" and if it's less that $100 I'd say "Thanks, but I'll pass."
my advice is so cheap it's free! i don't feel small, although at my age: some things are shrinking.
i stated what i think (see cheap/free above). i'm not competing with you: you 'authored' that idea!
OP: sorry for the tangent....
