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filter based preamp vs whatever the others are

#41
Clark Dark said:
But khutch Alembic identifies its circuit as a filter from day one to distinguish its electronics from its competitors and ACG uses the word filter because John East who makes eq circuits we all have some knowledge off by this time makes 2, 3, and now 4 band eq circuits and for ACG he makes a "filter". Should we as consumers get riled because the descriptions aren't empirical?
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I find it interesting how many times people have commented on khutch's desire for specificity, and not much on the content of what he's talking about. Personally, I appreciate that he is specific, clearly knowledgable, and has a excellent command of the English language as well. Plus, he hasn't been riled at all by this weird back and forth about semantics. We all know what we're talking about, so how about we focus on bass electronics.
I've personally found the most inexpensive option for Alembics, that is similar to the original sound, is the Bartolini EZQ, even though it is a band pass filter, rather than a low pass. If you run it at 18v you get an extra 6dB of head room, then use a trim pot to boost the gain to an acceptable level to compensate for the pickup's low output. I've tried setting it up with the bass boost option, but when turned down you lose too much gain to be a functional tone, and I found that I never rolled it off more than 50%. The gain boost solved all of that, and saved a knob space on the J-Bass control plate. A problem with working with the EZQ is that the dual b50k linear pots that Bart sends have short thread only long enough for a pick guard, so people with rear routed guitars are left without this option. I've searched for compatible pots with long thread to no avail. (If anyone knows how to source these without having to buy 1000 of them, I'd be in your debt).
 
#42
Christian Powell said:
I find it interesting how many times people have commented on khutch's desire for specificity, and not much on the content of what he's talking about. Personally, I appreciate that he is specific, clearly knowledgable, and has a excellent command of the English language as well. Plus, he hasn't been riled at all by this weird back and forth about semantics. We all know what we're talking about, so how about we focus on bass electronics.
I've personally found the most inexpensive option for Alembics, that is similar to the original sound, is the Bartolini EZQ, even though it is a band pass filter, rather than a low pass. If you run it at 18v you get an extra 6dB of head room, then use a trim pot to boost the gain to an acceptable level to compensate for the pickup's low output. I've tried setting it up with the bass boost option, but when turned down you lose too much gain to be a functional tone, and I found that I never rolled it off more than 50%. The gain boost solved all of that, and saved a knob space on the J-Bass control plate. A problem with working with the EZQ is that the dual b50k linear pots that Bart sends have short thread only long enough for a pick guard, so people with rear routed guitars are left without this option. I've searched for compatible pots with long thread to no avail. (If anyone knows how to source these without having to buy 1000 of them, I'd be in your debt).
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Hey Christian Powell, welcome to the terror dome. That response was made to simplify things. There are so many novices on this site that to get into some of the answers khutch submitted while empirical in substance took away the simplicity of "filter" onboard preamp like Alembic and ACG vs. parametric type and shelving types aka "other than Alembic and ACG". I don't see any of my responses as combative just following what the OP had written and inquired about. As for 50k linear taper pots I'd call EMG.:cool:
 
#43
Clark Dark said:
Hey Christian Powell, welcome to the terror dome. That response was made to simplify things. There are so many novices on this site that to get into some of the answers khutch submitted while empirical in substance took away the simplicity of "filter" onboard preamp like Alembic and ACG vs. parametric type and shelving types aka "other than Alembic and ACG". I don't see any of my responses as combative just following what the OP had written and inquired about. As for 50k linear taper pots I'd call EMG.:cool:
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Hey there,
Forgive my frustration. I was following the link for the subject of filters, but as I kept reading the conversation kept leading back to semantics. It's all good though. Everyone here is very polite. This isn't newsvine (thank god).
Anyway, regarding the b50k stereo pots; I tried EMG, and they don't carry them. I think I left out the "stereo" designation above. I've contacted a couple of places like Mouser and Allied, but they want me to order 1000 of them, and you can't find them anywhere. Bartolini doesn't have them, other than the ones they send, and their EZQ isn't exactly sought after since most people use the usual shelving EQ systems, so they don't support them as much.
I loaned out the fretless I built with the EZQ to a friend and he was dubious at first, but gave it great reviews after gigging with it. The only issue being the "bass boost" really cuts gain when you dial it down. I'm probably going to rewire it without the bass boost and just use a gain boost trim pot under the control cavity. Alembics sound great, but they are quiet. When I A/B the fretless with my Fender Custom Classic the output difference is drastic without the boost. But the EZQ system does work well with Alembic pickups overall, at a fraction of the price.
 
#44
Christian Powell said:
Hey there,
Forgive my frustration. I was following the link for the subject of filters, but as I kept reading the conversation kept leading back to semantics. It's all good though. Everyone here is very polite. This isn't newsvine (thank god).
Anyway, regarding the b50k stereo pots; I tried EMG, and they don't carry them. I think I left out the "stereo" designation above. I've contacted a couple of places like Mouser and Allied, but they want me to order 1000 of them, and you can't find them anywhere. Bartolini doesn't have them, other than the ones they send, and their EZQ isn't exactly sought after since most people use the usual shelving EQ systems, so they don't support them as much.
I loaned out the fretless I built with the EZQ to a friend and he was dubious at first, but gave it great reviews after gigging with it. The only issue being the "bass boost" really cuts gain when you dial it down. I'm probably going to rewire it without the bass boost and just use a gain boost trim pot under the control cavity. Alembics sound great, but they are quiet. When I A/B the fretless with my Fender Custom Classic the output difference is drastic without the boost. But the EZQ system does work well with Alembic pickups overall, at a fraction of the price.
Click to expand...

Do you need "stereo pots" or concentric pots? :cool:
 
#49
Clark Dark said:
:roflmao: Invalid Link Removed

LOL I was rushing
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It looks like they don't have it either. They carry a b50k dual pot, but not one with long enough thread for a rear routed instrument. That is what I typically found. Both Mouser and Allied said they could make them, but I'd have to commit to buying at least 1000 of them. It reminded me of that scene in Batman Begins when he was beta testing his cowls. They won't do it for just a dozen or so.
 
#50
If you are close to a good luthier you could just get a 1/4" or 1/8" deep circular rout which would remove some wood and allow the shorter shaft to work. Then again you could write Tayda and see if they have what you want:cool:
 
#51
Christian Powell said:
It looks like they don't have it either. They carry a b50k dual pot, but not one with long enough thread for a rear routed instrument. That is what I typically found. Both Mouser and Allied said they could make them, but I'd have to commit to buying at least 1000 of them. It reminded me of that scene in Batman Begins when he was beta testing his cowls. They won't do it for just a dozen or so.
Click to expand...

Here's the link for Alpha who makes those pots for Tayda
Alpha Products Inc is a worldwide source for Rotary and Slide Potentiometers and Encoders.
 
#53
you can have any pot you like if you buy 1000...

the trick with standard electronics shop pots in a rear-routed bass is to leave the anti-rotation lug on. that way you can carefully drill a shallow hole so you can skip the shakeproof washer and have the pot right up next to the timber. this will often expose enough thread to get the nut on.

if you still can't make it work, yes a router is fine, but a sharp chisel will work just as well if you just want to work one of the holes.
 
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#54
A quick update. Having installed the same combo of Q-filter midrange cut and standard tone control on my Wishbass that I have on my other passive basses, I find that I generally can get the tone I want with the onboard tones plus just a shelving of the low end using a graphic eq on my Korg PME. It takes a 6 dB boost at 200 and 12 dB boost at 100 to compensate for the pickup being so close to the bridge (about 1.25"). I no longer have to rely on the Super Tone Control to shape the Wishbass tone.

Otto
 
#56
RobbieK said:
you can have any pot you like if you buy 1000...

the trick with standard electronics shop pots in a rear-routed bass is to leave the anti-rotation lug on. that way you can carefully drill a shallow hole so you can skip the shakeproof washer and have the pot right up next to the timber. this will often expose enough thread to get the nut on.

if you still can't make it work, yes a router is fine, but a sharp chisel will work just as well if you just want to work one of the holes.
Click to expand...
Hey there. I did think of that, but the thread on these pots is really quite short. I was thinking if you routed your bass to accommodate, you wouldn't leave much wood. I don't think the thread is even 3/8". If it were even 1/2" it could work, but as it is you would be back routing your control cavity to nearly the thickness of a pick guard to make it work.
 
#57
yeah, standard pots have 6mm of thread. they work just fine the way I've described. I wouldn't recommend routing the whole cavity to leave only 3-4mm (although that is the thickness of the spruce top on most acoustics). just route or chisel the one hole where you have no choice. if you are still nervous about such thin material, you can soak the exposed timber fromthe rear with thin super glue. this adds surprising stiffness. the other option is to dismantle a couple of pots and swap the resistive wafers from one to another. that's pretty fiddly for a dual gang though...
 
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