Final year high school student major project.

[Fish63]

Having done this during my senior year as well, I would suggest maybe not trying to go all out with LED's etc. Like you said, you have a restricted amount of time in the workshop. It would be better to focus on building a great bass and getting it done than to try to add in frills and not have time to complete it.

I completely agree, I would only add extra things like that if I still have spare time after completing the rest of the project

 

[Fish63]

I would do some research on ergonomic instruments. Look at some of the unique ideas that people have had in that realm.

I'll be sure to look into it, thanks!

 

[Fish63]

Yeah, I'd agree (indeed, thought before scrolling down here to reply) that LED position markers (it's fretless, so they are not fret markers) is a needless complication for a first build with limited time.

98% of body shape is what you will and your design vision. 1% is not taking the design vision so far out of normal that parts don't fit, and 1% is putting the upper horn or strap attachment point far enough out that the bass doesn't tend to neck dive. A quick crude mockup can help to refine other ergonomic factors if you want to avoid "looks cool, but uncomfortable to play" - and if you make the quick crude mockup from glued-up wood scraps, making it gives you some practical experience before you get to shaping your final product.

I think I forgot to say this in my original post but I would still have "fret" lines and markers on the neck as I have never played a fretless instrument other than messing around with my school's double bass and I don't believe I have my muscle memory developed enough, I had the idea of having LED fret markers for two reasons, it looks cool to me, and it's another thing I can write about in my project portfolio for extra marks (hopefully) when I turn in the completed project. Good point about neck dive a lot of people have mentioned the top horn appears to be too small/weirdly positioned, thanks!

 

[Fish63]

Make sure that the pickup placement will give you the sound that you are wanting before you rout the pickup cavities. It's your bass, so make it how you want it.

I will be sure to, this is only a rough mock-up so things like the placement of the pickups and the pots/jack will definitely be different, thanks!

 

[themickster]

Hello fellow bassists, I am a student in my final year of high school planning to make a 5 string fretless bass as one of my major works throughout this year, I'm currently trying to get a finalised design in the next few weeks so that I can start ordering parts and cutting wood ASAP, I'm here to get some feedback and ideas from people that will hopefully lead to me making my project as good as it can be.

I know this current model isn't perfect but that's what I'm here for, I will be making a more detailed one soon that will include all the measurements being more precise and the hardware being more exact e.g. number of tone knobs and placement of output jack

If you can think of any criticisms or improvements for the body shape please let me know! And do you think it's worth making it multiscale if it's going to be fretless anyway or would it not be worth the hassle for somebody with no guitar making experience as I plan to create every wooden part of the bass, cheers!

And as a side note does anyone have any ideas for little things that could be interesting or go towards this project getting a better grade such as little things like LED fret markers and the like, pretty much anything that would help it stand out or could be written as a design choice thank you!

View attachment 5304535

Have a look at Ibanez Soundgear basses for a hint on how long the top horn needs to be for a good balance. I said Soundgear, since the body seems to be the roughly the same size as yours.

 

[themickster]

Come on, now.....This is your project assignment. You're supposed to demonstrate the clever ideas, good engineering, and decent craftsmanship. We're not going to do that for you!

But we will help you if we see a big potential problem that you are missing. Or if you don't understand some part of the engineering, we'll explain it. We encourage you, but you need to do the work and learn.

Your teacher would rather that you take a clever idea, and show a decent effort to develop it and figure it out, than to just borrow something routine and build it well. Bonus points for successful R & D.

Maybe focus your project on the idea of a fretless multi-scale? Is it useful? Is it worth it? Design it, build it, test it, and evaluate it. That's a decent R & D project.

Research and development. We had to do research on my design courses.

 

[Fish63]

As a first step, I'd suggest making a a full-scale drawing. You can't skimp on this, that's where you work out ALL the details, including scale length, bridge position, control layout, etc. With all that worked out, proceed to a quick and dirty plywood or MDF mockup, just to see how it feels in seated and standing position. Then proceed to a finished template made of 5/8" or 3/4" MDF. It's less expensive and easier to sand to shape than plywood, cheaper too. You can buy a 4'x4' piece at Home Depot or other Big Box store, should be big enough for both the body and neck. I attached a copy of a drawing I did for a recent project as an example. Yours does not have to be as elaborate, it could be hand-drawn on butcher paper using french curves, but the drawing comes FIRST. Make all your decisions on paper before you even touch a piece of wood. Paper is cheap, wood isn't. Hopefully you have access to the following tools, either at home, a local Maker space, or your school woodshop. In theory you could build the entire bass using hand tools, but power tools will be much quicker and more accurate:

Table Saw
Bandsaw or scollsaw
Drillpress
Router
Motorized sander of some kind
Variety of common hand tools like files, rasps, etc.

Be aware that the tablesaw is an inherently dangerous tool to use, even for highly experienced woodworkers. If you have a school shop, and are allowed to use one, I'd still suggest getting the shop teacher to do any cuts required on the tablesaw.

Watch as many Youtube videos as you can stand, there are literally hundreds of videos on every aspect of bass and guitar design and construction. There are only a few good books on the subject, the one by Melvyn Hiscock (yes that's his real name) "Make you Own Electric Guitar" the best I know of, and it has a full build chapter for a neck-through bass. For your first build, do a bolt-on neck for sure though.

https://www.amazon.com/Make-Your-Own-Electric-Guitar/dp/0953104907

Devils Advocate:
if your school will accept it, I HIGHLY recommend you buy a pre-made bolt-on bass neck, one with a "paddle" style uncut headstock blank, and just build the body yourself. Building a neck is very challenging, just the body and electronics is plenty of work by itself.

Good luck! Lots of great advice on tap here on TB, but as Bruce said, you have to do all the preliminary work, we can't design or build it for you.

Thank you for taking the time to write this!

Yes my school workshop does have every tool I will need (it may be one of the best funded aspects of the school for whatever reason) however students are not allowed to use it without our teacher present for obvious reasons, this only gives me about 5 hours a week to be in the workshop unless I can convince my teacher to turn a blind eye to me using the workshop during my breaks/free periods, and I am definitely planning on making a much more detailed and properly sized/scaled "drawing" I can print out and use as a template on cheap pieces of throwaway wood in my school workshop, I was also thinking I could possibly cut a body prototype out of some sort of foam as it would allow me to easily shape and cut it quickly without taking much time to a shape that fits my body, this is also something I could easily do during my free time at home giving me more time to focus on other aspects of the project while I'm in the workshop. Thank you!

edit: forgot to say this but thanks for the example diagram!

 

[dalkowski]

This is intriguing and reminds me of a classmate of my son's who built a wonderful acoustic guitar for his senior project with guidance of an English teacher who was also a luthier. Plus the kid's dad is a builder/cabinet maker so he had every resource.

As has been said, keep it simple. Start with what's attainable within the rubric and add on from there.

 

[Fish63]

I'd be looking at a 35" working length. But I wanna consider the overall length of the bass and keep it to a minimum if possible. Which means I want to pull my bridge as far back as I can. Then pull the neck into the correct position to obtain the proper 35" length. So now I can see that the crescent shape cut-out you have in the back hinders that effort and I may want something else (besides crescent shape). Then I'd want the bridge pickup fairly close too (Geddy J-bass style). The other pickup much further back than what you show it (but that's a preference thing). The upper horn has to be past the 12th fret to counter any neck dive issues. There's lots of small things to consider. But its your bass. Do what you think is right.

Good points, I am fairly but not fully attached to the crescent shape, but you are right about it possibly posing some challenges when it comes to making the bass a comfortable size and weight. As for the pickup positions this is just a rough mock up and I will be sure to change their placement, along with the placement of things like the pots/jack as the design progresses. I have had a few people say I should make the top horn larger but you are the first to give me a more specific size to aim for, thanks!

 

[groovaholic]

planning to make a 5 string fretless bass

Based on your first drawing, I see two (entirely subjective) issues:

1. IMO the shape of the bass clashes with how fretless basses are typically used in music (notable exception: Steve DiGiorgio). A fretless bass produces a throaty, organic sound - and your body shape gives more of a "crunchy metal" vibe; if it was my design, I'd align form and function by incorporating more rounded corners and flowing curves.
2. Your drawing shows one pickup right up by the neck, and the other right next to the bridge. Either position is fine; a pickup by the bridge gives the popular "Jaco Pastorius" fretless sound, while a pickup next to the neck produces a sound closer to an upright bass...but they wouldn't necessarily work well together. The farther pickups are apart, the more midrange is cancelled out when they are used together. Since the dominant "voice" of a fretless bass is in the midrange, you might want to move them closer together - which will also make it easier to connect all the electronics.

Aside from all that:
- Research truss rods and how they work, and think about how you would install one.
- Figure out how to mark the centerline of the bass so things that need to be centered and perpendicular can be made so.
- If one of your personal goals is to have a bass to bring with you to university, how do you want it to sound? You get to make this thing on school time for school credit, but long term it's worth the extra effort to make it sound and play the way you want a bass to sound and play.

So go to some guitar shops and play as many basses as you can - assess them as a player, then look them over as a woodworker.
Your player perspective will inspire your design, ergonomics, and electronic choices.
Your woodworking perspective will help you figure out which parts of the build will be most challenging, and plan ahead to address those challenges.

Good luck!

 

[Fish63]

A few thoughts from a builder:

How long do you have to build it? Is this a full-year project? Like is it due in December 2024 or do you have just one semester to complete? Full year means you can do some more in-depth things, but a half year means you may be limited in time if you want to fully complete it by the end, and will have an impact on effective design choices.

A simple instrument (i.e. Fender style construction) takes me around 30 hours start to finish, but I've also built a lot of instruments and have a jillion custom jigs and templates ready to go. If I were you, I'd be budgeting around 100 hours to complete a somewhat straightforward bass.

Do you have capacity and space to also work on aspects of it at home? Like can you do the finishing at home, electronics and install? If the school space is the only space to work on it, that will also potentially impact the build time and ability to be flexible.

A completed, functional instrument will probably blow away anyone who has never built one or is not familiar with what it takes to build one, so I doubt you'd need to get really into lots of extra design details to be a project success. You could probably build something pretty straightforward and still really impress.

Specifics - your body/neck design looks fine to me, but I second doing a full-size measured drawing (or CAD) of the instrument so that you can reference it in real-time as you build. It's invaluable when doing a prototype.

Fanned fretlesses are totally doable, and fanned instruments are not any more difficult to build than straight frets, assuming your design accommodates their needs. Do it if you want to.

Gather all your parts asap - their specific dimensions will affect the final instrument. The sooner you have them, the sooner you can reliably lay things out. Speaking of parts, don't be afraid to use super cheap AliExpress hardware. It's mostly average, not terrible, and many items are copies of higher end parts, so if you want to upgrade in the future, you can replace them with the higher end originals. One exception - use a quality truss rod.

Think about construction style now - how thick do you want your body (Fenders are often 44.5mm thick), the thinnest bodies need to consider pickup depth, neck/body joint and depth of cavity to accommodate electronics. I like mine very thin, so 30mm is about as thin as I can go and still have room for those things. In addition, do you want a bolt-on, set-neck or neck-through design? All have their own challenges and advantages. This might be an unpopular opinion amongst builders, but I personally find neck throughs easiest to build with less tools and experience. Also think about the headstock, do you want a tilt-back headstock or fender-style? All of these will impact things like wood selection, so they need to be decided asap.

If you can befriend a builder local to you, that would be a great help, but even if you can't this community here will be fantastic as a resource, it's a great place to hang out!

Last tip, get familiar with "1 inch = 25.4mm". This is an invaluable calculation to use 20 times a day when building instruments. That way, when a supplier shows something is 1.25" wide you can quickly turn that into 31.75mm. Most instrument-related measurements out there reflect Liberians and Burmese use of the old imperial measurements rather than the clean, modern metric system. No idea why that's still the case.

Thank you for taking the time to write this!

Yes this will be the only project I work on for the entirety of my final year, but our teacher wants (not needs) us to have our physical project done by our 3rd term, reserving our 4th term for preparing for our written exam and finishing our MDP (Major design project) portfolio.

As for things I will be able to do outside of the workshop, yes I could feasibly do the electronics although I do not know how to solder but I'm hoping it will be as easy as following a diagram that may or may not come with the pickups I buy, the finish I could probably do at home although I don't have any space to store wood covered in a finish as I live in a VERY small house, I am also not sure if we are actually allowed to take our projects out of the school but I'll ask my teacher about that. Speaking of buying components, I will be sure to do that as soon as possible, I currently have around 3 weeks until school begins again and I'm hoping to have every part by the 2nd or 3rd week to make sure I can route the cavities correctly, until then I'm planning to spend the next few weeks finalising the design, or possibly a couple alterations I can get people's thoughts on, and getting a good detailed CAD model completed as luckily for me my school's workshop has been blessed with a CNC machine I can use to cut out a blank for the body.

As for most people being "blown away" by the construction of a standard instrument, while this is definitely true (I've blown away lots of people just by mentioning I'm building one) the project will be marked by people who's whole job is to look at things people have created, and I'm sure they would of seen a fair few guitars in their time, I have also been by my teacher told that guitars do not typically score extremely highly, so I'm hoping to give the markers as many reasons as I can to bump up the mark.

For body specifics such as width and the kind of headstock angle, I will probably base it off my current bass (An Epiphone SG... not the greatest I know it was 2nd hand, cheap, and came with an amp) as it is a pretty comfortable thickness for me, but if I have the time I will experiment with body thickness with a couple prototypes made of cheap wood or possibly foam since it's a material I can work with at home. For the neck I defaulted towards the idea of a bolt on neck, but if you recommend a neck through design I will definitely look into the possibility.

Thank you very much for your help!

 

[Fish63]

Great idea for a project, @Fish63, and I wish you luck. I have done a few parts builds, including a fretless 5 this past summer, but I haven't started from bare wood yet (though I do have the ingredients on a shelf somewhere... someday!)

The first "issue" I see in your drawing is that what appears to be the nut is slanted... will this be a fanned fretless? Or monoscale "traditional" layout of the strings? The nut looks slanted, like you are thinking of fanning the "frets," but the body details don't support that, from what I can gather. So if this is traditional, I'd address the nut in your drawing. If fanned, then you are taking on a playing challenge... but it would be one I'd support, as I have a fretless Dingwall.

Again, good luck!

The reason for the inconsistency in fanned fretted-ness is that in my original even rougher model I originally had making it a multiscale neck, but I started having doubts and in this model I made the end of the neck standard and may of forgotten to change the nut to match... I am still undecided on whether I want it to be multi-scale or not but I think I may just make it standard for simplicities sake. thanks!

 

[Fish63]

questions and observations. I'm not sure why you have angled the tuners and the low B looks like it could be an issue with the point. You haven't really diagramed out any specifics with the bridge. There is just a rectangle there. The other rectangle closer to the bridge rectangle appears to be a pickup you would need to work out the specific clearance and in general it looks too far back towards the bridge to me in a general sense. As gilmourisgod said, make a full size drawing. Your nut is angled. Why? If you're making this a fretless bass, this seems pointless like you pasted something from a multi scale length bass on top. The knobs are too close to the edge and don't seem like they are in an optimal place for function or for creating the cavity for the back.

It's a start. Make a full size drawing. It doesn't have to be as detailed at the Alembic that was posted but you need something more than what you have currently.

All good points to raise, as for the tuners being angled that's just from me seeing the way Warwick basses have their tuners and thinking it looks cool, not a final design choice but I think I like it. You are absolutely right about the positioning of the hardware being off, This was a very rough model and in the coming days I will be making one with better placement, only thing is at this current stage I'm not sure how many knobs the bass will end up having but that should be all figured out quite soon. As for the nut being angled that was just leftover from a previous design where I had the neck being multi scale, changed the end of the neck in this model but neglected the nut... oops, still unsure if I want to go down the multi-scale route or not I've had people endorse it and others say it's pointless.
Thanks!

 

[Fish63]

I'd worry more about making the woodwork first rate than anything unique features. Remember, these judges likely are not instruments experts, they are woodworking experts.

This is a good point, I will be sure to make the woodworking as high quality as I can before adding any extras. thank you!

 

[Fish63]

Have a look at Ibanez Soundgear basses for a hint on how long the top horn needs to be for a good balance. I said Soundgear, since the body seems to be the roughly the same size as yours.

someone has said the top horn should be around the 12th fret, the Ibanez definitely reinforces this point, thanks!

 

[Fish63]

Based on your first drawing, I see two (entirely subjective) issues:

1. IMO the shape of the bass clashes with how fretless basses are typically used in music (notable exception: Steve DiGiorgio). A fretless bass produces a throaty, organic sound - and your body shape gives more of a "crunchy metal" vibe; if it was my design, I'd align form and function by incorporating more rounded corners and flowing curves.
2. Your drawing shows one pickup right up by the neck, and the other right next to the bridge. Either position is fine; a pickup by the bridge gives the popular "Jaco Pastorius" fretless sound, while a pickup next to the neck produces a sound closer to an upright bass...but they wouldn't necessarily work well together. The farther pickups are apart, the more midrange is cancelled out when they are used together. Since the dominant "voice" of a fretless bass is in the midrange, you might want to move them closer together - which will also make it easier to connect all the electronics.

Aside from all that:
- Research truss rods and how they work, and think about how you would install one.
- Figure out how to mark the centerline of the bass so things that need to be centered and perpendicular can be made so.
- If one of your personal goals is to have a bass to bring with you to university, how do you want it to sound? You get to make this thing on school time for school credit, but long term it's worth the extra effort to make it sound and play the way you want a bass to sound and play.

So go to some guitar shops and play as many basses as you can - assess them as a player, then look them over as a woodworker.
Your player perspective will inspire your design, ergonomics, and electronic choices.
Your woodworking perspective will help you figure out which parts of the build will be most challenging, and plan ahead to address those challenges.

Good luck!

You are absolutely right, the shape is not congruent with the type of music fretlesses are usually known for, this is intentional as I am a stock standard metalhead, that's what everybody knows me as, so I thought it could be interesting or at least slightly comical to have a more "aggresive" looking design that would more match me as a person/musician on a instrument that would not typically have that kind of aesthetic, I would also like to get more into the genres and artists that use fretless basses (Mostly Jaco). I am also a massive fan of Primus and most of my time on the bass is spent playing Les Claypool bass lines (Gotten top marks on a couple music assignments with 'em too!).

Thank you for your point about pickup placement, I've seen a lot of people say the placement is off (which it certainly is) but you've given me a proper reason to consider. I will be sure to look into the specifics of truss rods, along with all other components of the bass.

And yes I am planning on taking this bass to university with me, so I will definitely focus on the quality of the build as I can always add the extras later. Great idea about the music shops, I will try to make time to go to music shops and playing as many basses as they'll let me to see what aspects I do and don't like about them. Thank you!

 

[Leigh Semmens]

All the best with your Build Fish63, A bloke I knew as a kid built a bass during our Saturday morning woodwork classes. He used my (Coronet) bass as a template. I never did get to see/hear it finished. More's the pity! As for soldering, practice makes perfect. I'd be talking to someone who is experienced in that area (maybe one of your teachers) or a sparky. The issue being, if you do not get the heat to the right area quickly and efficiently you can end up with a crappy joint that adds noise (at best) to your circuit and nothing at all if the joint is completely "dry". Where in Rural OZ are you? Someone nearby might be able to help with some of that expertise.

 

[buldog5151bass]

This is a good point, I will be sure to make the woodworking as high quality as I can before adding any extras. thank you!

It's tough, we think as musicians. But speak with your teacher. I'm guessing to the judges, it's just a piece of wood. But you better post lots of photos here, both in development and final photos. Good luck.

 

[Fish63]

It's tough, we think as musicians. But speak with your teacher. I'm guessing to the judges, it's just a piece of wood. But you better post lots of photos here, both in development and final photos. Good luck.

I'll be sure to keep posting updates here or on a different thread, and you're probably right about the judges viewing it more from a woodworking angle. Thanks for the support!

 

[Fish63]

All the best with your Build Fish63, A bloke I knew as a kid built a bass during our Saturday morning woodwork classes. He used my (Coronet) bass as a template. I never did get to see/hear it finished. More's the pity! As for soldering, practice makes perfect. I'd be talking to someone who is experienced in that area (maybe one of your teachers) or a sparky. The issue being, if you do not get the heat to the right area quickly and efficiently you can end up with a crappy joint that adds noise (at best) to your circuit and nothing at all if the joint is completely "dry". Where in Rural OZ are you? Someone nearby might be able to help with some of that expertise.

Rural may not of been the best way to describe where I live that's my bad, without giving away exactly where I live it's a small town not too far from Lismore or Byron in NSW. My DT teacher may not have soldering/wiring expertise but there's other teachers at the school that may have some more experience