Finally played an all-tube amp!

[Johnny Fingers]

I can’t imagine using just one 2/10 cabinet bringing out the most of such an amp. Try adding a matching one or an additional 1/12 or 1/15, or upgrade to a 2/12 or 2/15 if the above post advice about changing settings does not work.
Maybe @agedhorse will chime in.

 

[Paul New]

I didn't buy it for bass, but years ago I had a '58 Bassman reissue. 4/10s, open back and 50 watt all tube amplifier circuit. I replaced the solid state rectifier with a tube.

I had no expectations for that thing to be even usable as a bass amp, but I have never gotten a bass sound better than that for both upright and bg, and loud enough for medium stuff, believe it or not.

 

[dbsfgyd1]

Played a bar gig last night where I usually have to bring my own rig, but new ownership has some house gear. Blown away by the difference in feel! Was like the notes just sprung out of the amp. Mind you, only an amateur player, so experience is limited.

It wasn't even a highly regarded amp from what I've read on here today - a Fender Bassman Ten, Silverface 70's vintage, hefty 4x10 combo. Primarily a guitar amp, only 50 watts, but in that venue I feel like that worked to its advantage because the channel and master volumes were up high, and we all know tubes like the workout.

Now I'm re-evaluating my whole setup. My rig is no slouch, Mesa Subway WD800 with matching 210 cab. But is it "too much rig for the gig"? Am I not running it where it needs to be to give the same snap? Am I too caught up in all the tone shaping capabilities and diluting things rather than enhancing? Realistically, I'm not about to go snap up a 100 pound tube amp to lug around, but I think I've now "crossed the chasm" where the feel and responsiveness have creeped to the top of the priority pile.

So, I guess this was more of a statement than discussion inducing. But an opportunity to play on something I wouldn't have otherwise had has upped the inspiration level and was a valuable learning experience (or at least a quest for new knowledge) that I thought I'd share. That happen to anyone else?

In the quest for knowledge I’ve often found pleasant experiences, so yes, it has happened to me on countless occasions. In regard to tube amps, I love them, but I grew up with them. To me it’s the way a PB was meant to be reproduced.

That said, they are not the only way to reproduce sound that is acceptable and or preferable to what a tube amp can offer.

BTW, on a side bar, my 300 watt Eden tube head is only 40lbs. I’m sure compared to your Mesa it would feel like 100lbs. LOL!!! Also, the 410 cab (as opposed to a 210) you played through had, powered with a hot amp had a lot to do with your experience. Glad you enjoyed your experience.

 

[Chickenwheels]

Your experience is very typical of an old tube Fender. You could mimic it by using a compression pedal in front of your current rig.

 

[DJ Bebop]

You likely know, but 50 tubes watts will sound a lot more substantial than its SS equivalent. And, a lot of people have discovered that vintage gear powered by tubes or older Class A/B solid state, with minimal tone shaping or effects has much more pop and clarity.

Long winded story for anyone interested:
About 25 years ago, I brought my pedalboard and 100w solid state guitar amp into a music store to try out a very common overdrive pedal. Coincidently, one of my favorite guitarists who used that pedal worked at the store. In my setup, the pedal sounded blah. "Give me a second," he said. He took the pedal off my board, adjusted it to minimal settings. Then he plugged it into a 22 watt tube amp a bit cranked. "Now try that," he said. Mind blown. We went right from Blah Street to Rip Your Face Off Town. Immediately ditched the SS amp, now own 4 tube amps of various sizes and have minimal pedal boards. With bass, I find the legacy big Class A/B SS as well as tube amps provide that same umph and clarity. So, your experience doesn't surprise me at all. Granted, there is the very real aspect of weight and maintenance to deal with which is a deal breaker for many. But, there's a reason these legacy amps still sell for a pretty penny.

Watts are watts, 50 watts are 50 watts period.
Now 50 watts coming from a tube amp may "sound" louder because the break up is more tolerable and easier to listen too at a louder level than SS amp going into break up Then the aspect of the difference in damping between the to topologies makes a difference.

It's like the old joke or tease. Which weights more, a pound of gold or a pound of lead

 

[tshapiro]

Watts are watts, 50 watts are 50 watts period.
Now 50 watts coming from a tube amp may "sound" louder because the break up is more tolerable and easier to listen too at a louder level than SS amp going into break up Then the aspect of the difference in damping between the to topologies

I didn't use the word 'louder' - only you did

 

[DJ Bebop]

I didn't use the word 'louder' - only you did

Okay, substantial then. And I still.say it's because of the same things I stated. The substantial sound difference comes from the tolerance of the tube amp bringing push and or the damping factor, all watts being equal

 

[agedhorse]

I can’t imagine using just one 2/10 cabinet bringing out the most of such an amp. Try adding a matching one or an additional 1/12 or 1/15, or upgrade to a 2/12 or 2/15 if the above post advice about changing settings does not work.
Maybe @agedhorse will chime in.

Using the low damping setting will emulate the lower damping factor (looser feel) typical of tube amps. Some folks like this feel but others prefer a tighter feel, so there's no single correct answer.

 

[DJ Bebop]

Played a bar gig last night where I usually have to bring my own rig, but new ownership has some house gear. Blown away by the difference in feel! Was like the notes just sprung out of the amp. Mind you, only an amateur player, so experience is limited.

It wasn't even a highly regarded amp from what I've read on here today - a Fender Bassman Ten, Silverface 70's vintage, hefty 4x10 combo. Primarily a guitar amp, only 50 watts, but in that venue I feel like that worked to its advantage because the channel and master volumes were up high, and we all know tubes like the workout.

Now I'm re-evaluating my whole setup. My rig is no slouch, Mesa Subway WD800 with matching 210 cab. But is it "too much rig for the gig"? Am I not running it where it needs to be to give the same snap? Am I too caught up in all the tone shaping capabilities and diluting things rather than enhancing? Realistically, I'm not about to go snap up a 100 pound tube amp to lug around, but I think I've now "crossed the chasm" where the feel and responsiveness have creeped to the top of the priority pile.

So, I guess this was more of a statement than discussion inducing. But an opportunity to play on something I wouldn't have otherwise had has upped the inspiration level and was a valuable learning experience (or at least a quest for new knowledge) that I thought I'd share. That happen to anyone else?

You have a Mesa WD 800? So do I.

Some things I would try, if you haven't already.

Try the medium to low damping setting.
Try running the amp in 2 ohm mode with an 8 or 4 ohm cabinets.

 

[JohnnyChatter]

First are you sure it wasn’t the fact you were playing a 410 opposed to your 210. When you play a bigger cab your pushing more air and it’s closer to your ears. Next, I find all amps are different. Tube/solid state/hybrid. If you spend enough time with them you can usually make it work as long as it has enough power. If you really like that fender 10 I would suggest a Fender 100T and 410 Neo. I played a Fender 10 years ago and they are a good sounding amp.

 

[tshapiro]

Okay, substantial then. And I still.say it's because of the same things I stated. The substantial sound difference comes from the tolerance of the tube amp bringing push and or the damping factor, all watts being equal

I think you're trying to be a smarty pants by saying power is power. At the end of the day, we all know the nature of tube amps gives more effective power on tap because they sound good as they are over-driven. Honestly, stating the on-paper reason is just a distraction from the key and practical point which is a tube amp is going to be surprisingly more capable compared to a SS amp with the same wattage rating. If I'm taking a bass tube amp to a gig I'm pulling a 300 watter. SS I'm going 1000 watts. Effectively the same on stage. I don't even think about the specs, I just know the practical application of playing them.

 

[Drummerboy2]

I didn't buy it for bass, but years ago I had a '58 Bassman reissue. 4/10s, open back and 50 watt all tube amplifier circuit. I replaced the solid state rectifier with a tube.

I had no expectations for that thing to be even usable as a bass amp, but I have never gotten a bass sound better than that for both upright and bg, and loud enough for medium stuff, believe it or not.

Tube rectifiers are really nice, I use one (GZ37) in my home VTA-120 KT-88 tube amp. Specially the Old School Mullards!

 

[DJ Bebop]

I think you're trying to be a smarty pants by saying power is power. At the end of the day, we all know the nature of tube amps gives more effective power on tap because they sound good as they are over-driven. Honestly, stating the on-paper reason is just a distraction from the key and practical point which is a tube amp is going to be surprisingly more capable compared to a SS amp with the same wattage rating. If I'm taking a bass tube amp to a gig I'm pulling a 300 watter. SS I'm going 1000 watts. Effectively the same on stage. I don't even think about the specs, I just know the practical application of playing them.

We all like what we like

 

[tshapiro]

We all like what we like

Well that's the darn truth, lol

 

[Topkat13]

Congrats…you advance to the bonus round!

 

[mikewalker]

I've been playing lots of modern tiny solid state amps lately, and I find I favor the ones with JFET front ends. And sure, they do the job.

But my very next amp will be a 100w tube Traynor. I'm really pining for the good old days with 50-100w tube amps cranked (Hiwatt, Sunn,Traynor, Ampeg etc). They did prove themselves very suitable in tonality, (archival recordings have confirmed that!) but mostly the edge and slight distortion really provided a "feel" that I don't get even from 300w tube amps (which aren't usually practical to dime anyway). Caveat: This mostly in a rock trio/quartet context, so YMMV...

 

[Jefenator]

Something about that touch response - there really is nothing quite like it. And it doesn't have to break your back anymore. There are 200 watt units that are decidedly moderate in weight. Or just use a mic or a line out with a 50 watt head and let the PA do all the heavy lifting. (That's what I did the other night for a rock show in a large room and it was one of my all-time best tone nights.)

 

[mmon77]

If you were playing guitar, I'd totally agree with you. As a guitarist turned bassist (who still also plays guitar), I don't get the hype for tube amps on bass. I've played through SVTs, and they sound great, I've played the newer all-tube Bassman, which I also liked. No way do I like the sound or feel of them more than SS enough to cart that weight around when I have alternatives, namely my Helix.

IMO the "touch sensitivity" or whatever you want to call it is important and perceptible on guitar, but I don't really see enough value in it on a bass amp to justify the cost and extra weight. Maybe that is just because of the music I play, which is mostly heavier rock/metal/prog metal.

Full disclosure: I don't believe in or perceive any difference between "tube watts" and "solid state watts". I also don't feel that class D amps lack "heft". I do think that tubes are super cool and have a mystique to them that is appealing, and have built and modified several tube amps for guitar. And, all of this is my opinion. We can agree to disagree.

 

[byacey]

I do think that tubes are super cool and have a mystique to them that is appealing, and have built and modified several tube amps for guitar. And, all of this is my opinion. We can agree to disagree.

Tubes are just a hopped up light bulb with some extra support hardware.

 

[rodl2005]

Ah.. Fender used to RULE, back in the 70s! I played the silverface bassman 10 combo in junior high school (the school owned it, along with the 74 P-bass they let me borrow for all of grade 9). "Played out" at some regional jazz band festivals and it was plenty loud and fat sounding.

Then in the Sr. high school jazz ensemble (in a different city) they had big Standell amps for the rhythm section at school, but when we went down to California for a tour - Oregon, L.A., Knott's Berry Farm, Escondido (Carvin Factory Tour!), and San Diego (grand finale on the Queen Mary Ballroom) - our "touring' backline was the same silverface Fender combos (4-10 for bass, twin for guitar, and the Rhodes piano had it's own suitcase amp).

When I finally got to the university jazz ensemble - it was a whole different story: the backline there was all Orange (the older ones with the gigantic knobs, which I thought was very cool... the only amps with bigger knobs than those were the Gibson LAB series, and some pretty rare Garnets)

By the early-80s, every 50-watt bassman amp around our neck of the woods had been relegated to guitar duty, bass had moved on to the next level...

Hence the Super Bassman grabs a lotta that mojo. I love it.

The Bassman 100T seems good too.

I'll 2nd or thousandth it... I think there's nothing like a good all tube amp

I've gotta orange AD200B too, and a few think it's like a higher powered ol Bassman. Love it too