Finally played an all-tube amp!

[Funkdified]

I also prefer tubes. I went from (still have it) an excellent GB Streamliner to the the SVT then when I needed something smaller the v-4b. I pick either the heritage 810e or the 212av. I guess being 40 and an avid weightlifter my back isn't bothered much.

 

[Ggaa]

My experience with tubes(been a while now)is they're surprisingly clean if you want it that way.

 

[Benj-jammin]

Oh, I hear that! None of use are getting any younger. Funny thing, one of those same Bassman Ten amps (1972 silverface) was posted for sale today locally. Some may consider that "fate", but I value my lower back too much to do anything crazy

…..which is why I affectionately slap my Rumble 500 every morning before heading out to work! I'm 64, 6'2, 195, in good shape, can still lift the heavier rigs, but doesn't matter what size you are, father time eventually catches up, all it takes is one bad wrench to ruin your back....

 

[mrcbass]

Played a bar gig last night where I usually have to bring my own rig, but new ownership has some house gear. Blown away by the difference in feel! Was like the notes just sprung out of the amp. Mind you, only an amateur player, so experience is limited.

It wasn't even a highly regarded amp from what I've read on here today - a Fender Bassman Ten, Silverface 70's vintage, hefty 4x10 combo. Primarily a guitar amp, only 50 watts, but in that venue I feel like that worked to its advantage because the channel and master volumes were up high, and we all know tubes like the workout.

Now I'm re-evaluating my whole setup. My rig is no slouch, Mesa Subway WD800 with matching 210 cab. But is it "too much rig for the gig"? Am I not running it where it needs to be to give the same snap? Am I too caught up in all the tone shaping capabilities and diluting things rather than enhancing? Realistically, I'm not about to go snap up a 100 pound tube amp to lug around, but I think I've now "crossed the chasm" where the feel and responsiveness have creeped to the top of the priority pile.

So, I guess this was more of a statement than discussion inducing. But an opportunity to play on something I wouldn't have otherwise had has upped the inspiration level and was a valuable learning experience (or at least a quest for new knowledge) that I thought I'd share. That happen to anyone else?

I gotta say that I'm a bit afraid to try a tube amp because I'm afraid I wouldn't be able to go back. But, I don't want the weight or the delicacy of the tube amp, so finding other ways to emulate the sound.

 

[akukulich]

When I was in high school in the early '80s, the dad of one of the guys in the band had a Bassman 10. When we rehearsed there I got to play through it and loved it. It was certainly a lot better than the Fender Bantam Bass amp that I owned, which may get the award for Fender's worst bass amp ever.

 

[Rockbobmel]

My experience with tubes(been a while now)is they're surprisingly clean if you want it that way.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

At one point I played the bass equivalent of the below (although the logo had fallen off):

It caught fire on stage, though.

 

[Bonecat]

For a time I was addicted to my Sunn Coliseum. But then I got old. And then I got hurt. This began my quest for lighter gear that didn’t suck. Through that experience I spent some time using EA and Acoustic Image gear and liked hearing that sort of fidelity to the instrument. That ultimately took me to Bergantino and I’ve been there ever since.

 

[DJJazzV]

You are correct. Your rig is certainly no slouch.
Two things to consider: Stage tone and PA tone.
I'm assuming you only heard the stage tone from the tube amp. No DI to the house board.
Power tubes have a "Sizzle" that doesn't go through a DI into the house. Unless you mic the cab.
Preamp tubes will, but that's not the same.

You have some thinking to do, but there is nothing wrong at all with your current rig.
If you want to change and stay similar, the older Mesa Boogie M6 and M9 heads are hybrids. Only 25 lbs. A power section that slams like a Crest CA9 poweramp, and a preamp section that has a little (very little) 1 12AX7 tube grit. Put the right pedal in front, and you have a beast. Tone from the pedal, chest pumping stage feel.
Only a suggestion, from my own personal experiences.
Have fun in your tone quest. It will never end anyway.

 

[Nuage420]

In as much as I would say that every bassist needs to have a 'P-bass' phase, there should also be a tube amp phase. Once you know what that is all about, you can play through what ever solid state class D amp your back will agree too. But there is a reason I traded my PF500 for a PF50T.

One thing I have always found strange is that tube amps seem to be more immediate than solid state. Like the note gets there sooner, much sooner. It's a weird feeling. Not enough to be off putting playing through a solid state amp, just the tube amp feels better because it feels more accurate in relation to time. Anyone else feel that?

I'm going through both. Avoided P basses for almost 20 years but recently put a parts P together and absolutely love it and picked up a 5 string PJ that right now is the least expensive bass I have but the most played. Couple weeks ago I decided to try tube since I had never seen nor played one. Got hooked up with a great deal on a little bastard 30. Love it, and now I'm looking at more tube stuff. As much as I love it and it does it's own thing perfectly,it can't do everything my genzler Magellan 800 can.

 

[monkeyfinger]

I am sure the OP is relaying an accurate description of their experience. I don't think it makes sense to automatically assume the experience was solely because it was a tube amp. Before you decide to kick your WD-800 to the curb, I suggest you look at your gain-staging, and the eq settings. The fender tone-stack, which the tube amp used, has a completely different response from the one on the MB. It is very mid-scooped when all tone knobs are at noon. For the MB, this would be flat, (at least for the parametric part). You can get a similar eq on the WD-800 with the bass around 2-3 o-clock, same for the treble, and set the mids to noon. Leave the para-mid knobs at noon. Bring up the gain until the overload light flashes regularly when you are digging in, but is mostly off at normal attack pressure. Now set the dampening to slow response. It's not going to exactly mimic the tone of a good tube amp, but you will start to hear some of the tone you described. A tube power stage adds complex and non-linear harmonic overtones and compression to the signal that is hard to emulate in SS amps.

I have a WD-800. I love that amp. So called me biased. I know I will never get a tube amp tone from it, but I actually prefer the immediacy of a solid state power section. I also replaced the tube in the preamp with a NOS Mullard 12AT7, which, for me, was a big improvement. I am not knocking the OEM Tung-Sol tube in the least. It is a great tube. But, as @agedhorse stated in the past, when am amp manufacturer selects a tube for a current production amp, they are not only looking for a great sound, but they also need to get high quality tubes in large quantities, with very few duds in the bunch, and that will last for a very long time, and with low customer support incidents. Given that criteria, the current production Tung-Sols make total sense to me. However, it my not be the optimal tube for your tone goals.

 

[x52dcd]

You are correct. Your rig is certainly no slouch.
Two things to consider: Stage tone and PA tone.
I'm assuming you only heard the stage tone from the tube amp. No DI to the house board.
Power tubes have a "Sizzle" that doesn't go through a DI into the house. Unless you mic the cab.
Preamp tubes will, but that's not the same.

You have some thinking to do, but there is nothing wrong at all with your current rig.
If you want to change and stay similar, the older Mesa Boogie M6 and M9 heads are hybrids. Only 25 lbs. A power section that slams like a Crest CA9 poweramp, and a preamp section that has a little (very little) 1 12AX7 tube grit. Put the right pedal in front, and you have a beast. Tone from the pedal, chest pumping stage feel.
Only a suggestion, from my own personal experiences.
Have fun in your tone quest. It will never end anyway.

I did have the M9, which is what led me to the WD800 (with a stop at the D800 along the way). At the time, had that in a rack case and thought downsizing was a good idea. Also did not have the right cabs to match that head then. I think the person I sold it to still has it, so may be worth a revisit!

 

[vvvmmm]

So I started on guitar and my first gigging amp was a Silverface Bassman 100w. tube head into a a 4x12 Sound City with Celestions.

Power-funk trio and I had midi-rack stuff and pedals but just couldn't get the big rock sound I wanted without a Rat so I sold the Bassman and got a S/S fender M-80 what had a kinda compressed overdrive channel that worked OK with the midi stuff (I wanted to be Vernon Reid and/or Hillel Slovak). Kinda MPOS amp altho' I gave it to my second guitar player in one band who replaced his Twin with it which resulted in a reason for breaking up the band ... another story.

Time goes by and I've Boogie and Marshall and Fender and Orange and Vox and Ampeg, etc., tube guitar amps from 15 to 100 watts and I start seriously playing bass, first using a Musicman HD130 what is S/S pre and tube power. I graduate to a PF500 and have played that for 10+ years now.

Earlier this summer I picked up a PF50t (here) and - well, it's full circle, innit?

 

[groovepump]

If you were playing guitar, I'd totally agree with you. As a guitarist turned bassist (who still also plays guitar), I don't get the hype for tube amps on bass. I've played through SVTs, and they sound great, I've played the newer all-tube Bassman, which I also liked. No way do I like the sound or feel of them more than SS enough to cart that weight around when I have alternatives, namely my Helix.

IMO the "touch sensitivity" or whatever you want to call it is important and perceptible on guitar, but I don't really see enough value in it on a bass amp to justify the cost and extra weight. Maybe that is just because of the music I play, which is mostly heavier rock/metal/prog metal.

Full disclosure: I don't believe in or perceive any difference between "tube watts" and "solid state watts". I also don't feel that class D amps lack "heft". I do think that tubes are super cool and have a mystique to them that is appealing, and have built and modified several tube amps for guitar. And, all of this is my opinion. We can agree to disagree.

I have to agree, I have similar experiance. I almost pulled the trigger
on an Ampeg V4-B, just before the Pandemic. I prefer it over the SVT at
the venues/power levels we usually play. I started wavering on the the price,
and risked buying a Quilter BB802 instead. I never had a class-D amp before, always
being an AMPEG user (I also have BA108, BA210 and Hartke LH500).
The Quilter doe NOT sound like a V4-B. It can't. But it sounds like a Quilter,
and I run the gain at 12 oclock, sometimes 3 oclock, and use the Master for
volume control. It grunts like a tube amp, and plows through speakers no problem.
Not a tube amp, but just as nice in a "Quilter" way. I love it. And I'm sure
those bassists running MESA gear might have similar experience. Tubes are GREAT!
But ... a good SS amp, adjusted correctly, can be just as satisfying, without the
extra weight and size.
Just my opinion.

 

[DJ Bebop]

This was one of my first thoughts as well. I'm definitely going to try and borrow/rent something to test. My only thought was could this end up being too over powering with the mesa's high wattage? Could I reach a "sweet spot" for feel without too much volume?

That 2 ohms switching thing and lower damping setting that I and hennessybass is a way to get closer to what you are looking for. The 2-ohm switch trick lowers the wattage and the middle or low damping setting will give you more of a tube amp feel

 

[DJ Bebop]

I also prefer tubes. I went from (still have it) an excellent GB Streamliner to the the SVT then when I needed something smaller the v-4b. I pick either the heritage 810e or the 212av. I guess being 40 and an avid weightlifter my back isn't bothered much.

View attachment 4434220

From taking my SVTs around

 

[john_g]

I have an SVT CL but most of the time I gigged with my Markbass LMII (which is 500 watts) and now GK Legacy 500, mostly for the convenience. However, the SVT is "louder" and sounds (IMHO) better. Loved my LMII and new GK, but there is just something extra with the tube amp. I dont know if it puts out more harmonic content or what the technical reasons are, but its just better. Its also 92 lbs and since I play some keys too, most of the time i opt for the 6 lb amp.

 

[john_g]

From taking my SVTs around
View attachment 4434509

And dianabol. Lots and lots of dianabol.

 

[GretschWretch]

Watts are watts, 50 watts are 50 watts period.
Now 50 watts coming from a tube amp may "sound" louder because the break up is more tolerable and easier to listen too at a louder level than SS amp going into break up Then the aspect of the difference in damping between the to topologies makes a difference.

It's like the old joke or tease. Which weights more, a pound of gold or a pound of lead

Reminds me of a band I was in just out of high school. The lead guitarist and the drummer got into a vigorous argument regarding replacing a PA head.

Drummer: Stereo watts are better than mono watts!

Lead guitarist: No, they are not. 100 watts mono is not the same as stereo with 50 watts in each channel.

Dr: Te***, you don't know what you are talking about!

LG: B*** W****, you cannot make a remark like "stereo watts are better than mono watts" and then tell me that *I* do not know what *I'm* talking about!

 

[JeezyMcNuggles]

I gotta say that I'm a bit afraid to try a tube amp because I'm afraid I wouldn't be able to go back. But, I don't want the weight or the delicacy of the tube amp, so finding other ways to emulate the sound.

You can't emulate it. It's just one of those things.

There's a certain "realness" and control that only an all tube amplifier can give you. And, it's something you'll never understand til you play one thoroughly.

Do solid state amps sound good? Yeah dude! They sound great!

Do tube amps sound better? Yeah dude! They do!

Do solid state amps play well? Yeah dude! They are so consistent, and clean!

Do tube amps play better? Yes. You play your amp, almost as much as you play your instrument.

In fact, Mesa tends to refer to their amps as instruments in themselves.

They're just different. And that is all.

Are you missing out, not trying one? Yes.

Does it really matter? No.

You play bass. The audience hears you mixed with everyone else.

Can you tell the difference in a mix? You can. The audience can not.

Can you tell the difference on a recording? Yes. Most of the time.