Finally played an all-tube amp!

[baxter_x]

Played a bar gig last night where I usually have to bring my own rig, but new ownership has some house gear. Blown away by the difference in feel! Was like the notes just sprung out of the amp. Mind you, only an amateur player, so experience is limited.

It wasn't even a highly regarded amp from what I've read on here today - a Fender Bassman Ten, Silverface 70's vintage, hefty 4x10 combo. Primarily a guitar amp, only 50 watts, but in that venue I feel like that worked to its advantage because the channel and master volumes were up high, and we all know tubes like the workout.

Now I'm re-evaluating my whole setup. My rig is no slouch, Mesa Subway WD800 with matching 210 cab. But is it "too much rig for the gig"? Am I not running it where it needs to be to give the same snap? Am I too caught up in all the tone shaping capabilities and diluting things rather than enhancing? Realistically, I'm not about to go snap up a 100 pound tube amp to lug around, but I think I've now "crossed the chasm" where the feel and responsiveness have creeped to the top of the priority pile.

So, I guess this was more of a statement than discussion inducing. But an opportunity to play on something I wouldn't have otherwise had has upped the inspiration level and was a valuable learning experience (or at least a quest for new knowledge) that I thought I'd share. That happen to anyone else?

Play your SS AMP with this your 410. You'll be surprised with the result. Both SS amp and all tube sound great and can sound the same.
But ignoring the cab is a bit of a mistake IMO

 

[baxter_x]

I gotta say that I'm a bit afraid to try a tube amp because I'm afraid I wouldn't be able to go back. But, I don't want the weight or the delicacy of the tube amp, so finding other ways to emulate the sound.

I tried both and still play SS amps.

 

[matthewbrown]

Played a bar gig last night where I usually have to bring my own rig, but new ownership has some house gear. Blown away by the difference in feel! Was like the notes just sprung out of the amp. Mind you, only an amateur player, so experience is limited.

It wasn't even a highly regarded amp from what I've read on here today - a Fender Bassman Ten, Silverface 70's vintage, hefty 4x10 combo. Primarily a guitar amp, only 50 watts, but in that venue I feel like that worked to its advantage because the channel and master volumes were up high, and we all know tubes like the workout.

Now I'm re-evaluating my whole setup. My rig is no slouch, Mesa Subway WD800 with matching 210 cab. But is it "too much rig for the gig"? Am I not running it where it needs to be to give the same snap? Am I too caught up in all the tone shaping capabilities and diluting things rather than enhancing? Realistically, I'm not about to go snap up a 100 pound tube amp to lug around, but I think I've now "crossed the chasm" where the feel and responsiveness have creeped to the top of the priority pile.

So, I guess this was more of a statement than discussion inducing. But an opportunity to play on something I wouldn't have otherwise had has upped the inspiration level and was a valuable learning experience (or at least a quest for new knowledge) that I thought I'd share. That happen to anyone else?

Any all-tube rig will sound WAY better after you've carried it up two flights of stairs, IME.

 

[Chickenwheels]

Something about that touch response - there really is nothing quite like it. And it doesn't have to break your back anymore. There are 200 watt units that are decidedly moderate in weight. Or just use a mic or a line out with a 50 watt head and let the PA do all the heavy lifting. (That's what I did the other night for a rock show in a large room and it was one of my all-time best tone nights.)

Agreed on the mic. An awesome experience through the right PA. Your amp sound, but bigger, louder and everywhere!

 

[CTW68]

I own a Bassman 10, and I love that thing. Tone for days. It won't do sub-bass, but it's absolutely ideal for Americana etc.

 

[gstaats]

I have both. Both sound good, both are totally gigable and get the job done. Tradeoffs really. Considering FOH is most likely a digital console and class d power amps, the sound guy has alot of influence on tone for a live use. If I bring the tube rig, it's for show. Great vintage vibe.

 

[InnerCityBass]

Played a bar gig last night where I usually have to bring my own rig, but new ownership has some house gear. Blown away by the difference in feel! Was like the notes just sprung out of the amp. Mind you, only an amateur player, so experience is limited.

It wasn't even a highly regarded amp from what I've read on here today - a Fender Bassman Ten, Silverface 70's vintage, hefty 4x10 combo. Primarily a guitar amp, only 50 watts, but in that venue I feel like that worked to its advantage because the channel and master volumes were up high, and we all know tubes like the workout.

Now I'm re-evaluating my whole setup. My rig is no slouch, Mesa Subway WD800 with matching 210 cab. But is it "too much rig for the gig"? Am I not running it where it needs to be to give the same snap? Am I too caught up in all the tone shaping capabilities and diluting things rather than enhancing? Realistically, I'm not about to go snap up a 100 pound tube amp to lug around, but I think I've now "crossed the chasm" where the feel and responsiveness have creeped to the top of the priority pile.

So, I guess this was more of a statement than discussion inducing. But an opportunity to play on something I wouldn't have otherwise had has upped the inspiration level and was a valuable learning experience (or at least a quest for new knowledge) that I thought I'd share. That happen to anyone else?

Yeeeep yep yep!

 

[Funkdified]

From taking my SVTs around
View attachment 4434509

Think strong man, not body builder.

 

[x52dcd]

I have both. Both sound good, both are totally gigable and get the job done. Tradeoffs really. Considering FOH is most likely a digital console and class d power amps, the sound guy has alot of influence on tone for a live use. If I bring the tube rig, it's for show. Great vintage vibe.
View attachment 4434610 View attachment 4434611 View attachment 4434612

That rack/cab thing is cool! I'd prefer more modular for portability, but that is slick looking!

I get that the FoH is a different story, and honestly I could care less about that so long as the band mix is good. I'm believe that the feel/responsiveness I got from that amp on stage made me play better, and that's what's important to me.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

Unless you mic the cab.

Or use a speaker-level DI, probably with speaker simulation.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

I once got compliments on my great tube amp sound. But I wasn't using the Traynor to get it, rather a Zoom 9150 guitar multi-effects with a Mullard 12AX7 in a starved configuration into an Award-Session MB-10 which has a guitar speaker emulation. (I've never seen an MB-12, the bass one). It basically meant fat, slightly compressed, with some low-end roll off for a vaguely pushed Ampeg type sound, but all fake. The Traynor did sound better, just not as convenient to haul to somewhere to record. It shows that when things get buried in a mix you can get away with a lot of stuff!

 

[DJ Bebop]

Think strong man, not body builder. View attachment 4434637

I got this from caring around my SVTs

 

[Aussie Player]

You likely know, but 50 tubes watts will sound a lot more substantial than its SS equivalent. And, a lot of people have discovered that vintage gear powered by tubes or older Class A/B solid state, with minimal tone shaping or effects has much more pop and clarity.

Long winded story for anyone interested:
About 25 years ago, I brought my pedalboard and 100w solid state guitar amp into a music store to try out a very common overdrive pedal. Coincidently, one of my favorite guitarists who used that pedal worked at the store. In my setup, the pedal sounded blah. "Give me a second," he said. He took the pedal off my board, adjusted it to minimal settings. Then he plugged it into a 22 watt tube amp a bit cranked. "Now try that," he said. Mind blown. We went right from Blah Street to Rip Your Face Off Town. Immediately ditched the SS amp, now own 4 tube amps of various sizes and have minimal pedal boards. With bass, I find the legacy big Class A/B SS as well as tube amps provide that same umph and clarity. So, your experience doesn't surprise me at all. Granted, there is the very real aspect of weight and maintenance to deal with which is a deal breaker for many. But, there's a reason these legacy amps still sell for a pretty penny.

I have had a dart or 2 tossed in my direction for holding ground on no pedals needed, but I also own 4 amp set ups including a 40 year old Marshall JCM 800 without Master Volume and a Marshall VBA so cover a lot of basses with my basses. I do not get impressed with most bass rigs I hear but it seems a lot of bass players are very interested in mine.

I think the simplicity is a plus.

 

[Wasnex]

Maybe you have found your holy grail and maybe something else is responsible for the great experience you had. I toured professionally for over two decades and my observation is it is very hard to get the sound you want in a live environment, even with a rig you really love.

The primary problem is room acoustics which tend to vary significantly from gig to gig. Your listening experience can also change significantly depending on where you are in a given room. One location may sound great, and another location may sound awful. Every once in a while you have a gig where the bass sounds exactly they way you want, and nothing has changed except location.

The other factor you should consider is the cab. In my experience cabs tend to make more of a difference than the amp. Also amp/cab pairings can be important. Sometimes you come across a pairing that provides a certain gestalt where the results are way better than you would expect from the amp and cab.

Don't buy into the hype about power or you may get burned. Every time I have compared solid state amps to tube amps with similar power ratings, the sold state amp seemed to have more headroom to me. I suspect other people have different experiences because they play differently and/or have different expectations about tone and feel.

Ultimately this argument is not necessary or beneficial. Find a rig that sounds great and meets your volume needs, and don't worry about whether it is solid state or tube. I have 29 amps in my collection and about 2/3rds would be considered all tube. My tube amps range from 12W to over 400W, so it's not a problem to choose one that gets thick and tubey at low volume or plays loud and clean. My solid state amps range in power from about 350W to 2500W. The 350W amps are noticeably louder than all but the loudest of my tube amps. My higher powered solid state amps feel like they are barely off idle at the volume where my biggest tubes amps are crossing in OD, but most people do not really need to play that freaking loud.

I love the way a vintage Fender sounds. I learned to play bass through a blackface Twin Reverb, and currently own an early TFL5005D Showman Reverb. This amp is essentially the Twin in head form. If you want a higher powered amp that gets really close, try an Orange AD200B. For the Fender sound and feel, max out the (master) Volume control and set your level with the Gain.

The AD200B makes about 170W clean. This is a good amount of power, but you need to figure out if it is enough for your needs. An Ampeg SVT or Ashdown CTM300 will be a bit louder, but they don't have the same sound. My point is different brands and models of tube amps tend to have their own unique personality. They can vary significantly from each other because tubey is not a single immutable property. Rather there are a variety of properties that can be combined in different amounts to make an amp sound more or less tubey. Your job is to find an amp the provides just the right mixture of these qualities to suit your needs. A Reeves 400 and an Ampeg SVT are going to be very, very different even though both are all tube. They are both awesome IMHO, but you might love one and hate the other.

Good Luck!

 

[gstaats]

That rack/cab thing is cool! I'd prefer more modular for portability, but that is slick looking!

I get that the FoH is a different story, and honestly I could care less about that so long as the band mix is good. I'm believe that the feel/responsiveness I got from that amp on stage made me play better, and that's what's important to me.

The last couple gigs I've done I heard more foh than my amp. At one in July with the b-15r, no one could tell I killed the master on it. The monitors and FOH was carrying me. I was running DI from my head that gig, so I just dialed the volume back and let FOH do the work.

I've found for play and responsiveness, getting used to playing in a variety of acoustic spaces and not relying on an amp to sound like me is best. I practice with an amp and headphones, and the band rehearses in a variety of locations. As long as I can hear myself enough for intonation (fretless), that's all I need.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

Maybe you have found your holy grail and maybe something else is responsible for the great experience you had. I toured professionally for over two decades and my observation is it is very hard to get the sound you want in a live environment, even with a rig you really love.

The primary problem is room acoustics which tend to vary significantly from gig to gig.

I have a digital room correction program on a laptop. I am not sure I would want to try and run my signal through that for an entire gig to correct for room acoustics, but then I have also never worked out how to actually use it!

 

[x52dcd]

The last couple gigs I've done I heard more foh than my amp. At one in July with the b-15r, no one could tell I killed the master on it. The monitors and FOH was carrying me. I was running DI from my head that gig, so I just dialed the volume back and let FOH do the work.

I've found for play and responsiveness, getting used to playing in a variety of acoustic spaces and not relying on an amp to sound like me is best. I practice with an amp and headphones, and the band rehearses in a variety of locations. As long as I can hear myself enough for intonation (fretless), that's all I need.

Very valid points. Will add that to the thought process!

 

[gstaats]

I have a digital room correction program on a laptop. I am not sure I would want to try and run my signal through that for an entire gig to correct for room acoustics, but then I have also never worked out how to actually use it!

I think that would be overkill. I wouldn't want the hassle of a laptop at a gig. Plenty of other things to worry about. I would also be worried about aggrevating FOH.

 

[_Some Dude]

Played a bar gig last night where I usually have to bring my own rig, but new ownership has some house gear. Blown away by the difference in feel! Was like the notes just sprung out of the amp. Mind you, only an amateur player, so experience is limited.

It wasn't even a highly regarded amp from what I've read on here today - a Fender Bassman Ten, Silverface 70's vintage, hefty 4x10 combo. Primarily a guitar amp, only 50 watts, but in that venue I feel like that worked to its advantage because the channel and master volumes were up high, and we all know tubes like the workout.

Now I'm re-evaluating my whole setup. My rig is no slouch, Mesa Subway WD800 with matching 210 cab. But is it "too much rig for the gig"? Am I not running it where it needs to be to give the same snap? Am I too caught up in all the tone shaping capabilities and diluting things rather than enhancing? Realistically, I'm not about to go snap up a 100 pound tube amp to lug around, but I think I've now "crossed the chasm" where the feel and responsiveness have creeped to the top of the priority pile.

So, I guess this was more of a statement than discussion inducing. But an opportunity to play on something I wouldn't have otherwise had has upped the inspiration level and was a valuable learning experience (or at least a quest for new knowledge) that I thought I'd share. That happen to anyone else?

I consider myself a tube snob.

That said, I think the WD800 is a killer sounding amp and is one of the few solid states that I’ve really liked the feel of.

I fk’n love the sound of an SVT, and with the WD800 I don’t feel the sound is inferior so much as it is different and cool in its own way. Further, the WD800 gets a lot of gigs specifically because of the portability, and if I’m going to jam or audition I don’t exactly want to be rolling an 810 into someone’s basement.

And like some others in this thread, I’d recommend adding the Subway 115 to your setup.

Not that I’m trying to talk you out of getting a tube amp. I think they’re awesome.

 

[agedhorse]

I have a digital room correction program on a laptop. I am not sure I would want to try and run my signal through that for an entire gig to correct for room acoustics, but then I have also never worked out how to actually use it!

Plus, your correction only applies to the location of the measurement mic.