Financial troubles at Gibson

[bumperbass]

The retail music industry is hurting as a whole. The kids have their heads plunked in front of their smart phones and aren't interested in learning music. Local bands around here are disappearing and the number of places to play have shrunk, too.

 

[alaskaleftybass]

View attachment 2680502 I have this T-Bird; a '13 Gibson. And I consider myself extremely fortunate to have it, too. While Gibson doesn't make lefty basses very often, they do make them. Epiphone? Love to have one, but "Left Handed" is not in their vocabulary when it comes to basses. Not sure it ever has been, to be honest...My only lefty Epi is a Matsumoku-made EA-250 guitar - made 45 years ago. Until Epiphone pulls their finger out, I'll wait 'till Gibson decides to make a handful of lefties again (rumor is, 2018), then grit my teeth and pay up...

^This.^ Fender i.e. Squier has been a bit kinder to lefties than Gibson/Epiphone. Ibanez is even worse. I love my two Ibby's but they seem to make most of their lefty's in black. Like For Model T's!

As for Gibson, it's sad to see such a great American company flounder. I think that both Fender and Gibson have become insanely overpriced-- the American brands. Why? Because in America the "Great American Manager is GOD in all American companies nowadays. The current philosophy of American business is for every one productive working employee, always hire two managers. One to watch the employee, and one to manage the employee and manager. And whenever there are cuts in jobs, it's ALWAYS the hourly working stiffs. This is the reason our country is sooo screwed up. So many mid level families and workers with both parents working to hold on to what little they have.

But in Asia? They are ruthless in competitiveness. They're not going to stack managers on top of managers because they're SMARTER than American businessmen-- they know where all the worthless fat lies. So, as the offshore instruments are becoming higher quality, Americans are still managing managers and cutting the working end of the business. This is how Gibson along with most all the other American businesses conduct "business." It's no wonder they're losing the battle. Same with Sears. They cut the staff, but should KICK OUT the managers.

end rant/

EDIT: I forgot to mention-- one of the coolest basses I ever played and drooled over was the Gibson Ripper. Ever since I saw DEVO in Seattle and the bass player playing a Ripper left handed I've wanted one. I wish Gibson would bring back the Ripper. And price it Street at $1,000. Then I'd buy it. Gibson needs to cut their prices in half and bring up their QA.

 

[monsterthompson]

The retail music industry is hurting as a whole. The kids have their heads plunked in front of their smart phones and aren't interested in learning music. Local bands around here are disappearing and the number of places to play have shrunk, too.

I wouldn't blame it on all on phones. There are possibly as many musicians today as there were 20 years ago. In high school 25 years ago, I knew one bass player and a few guitarists.

Also, the synth and sample world was ripped open by technology catching up with the needs to hold libraries of samples or create synths. I would bet that world is much more interesting to kids. It is to me. I will always love playing bass. However, I can do so much more in my laptop. With my bass, I can learn, write and perform bass parts. With my computer, I can compose, produce, and perform entire tracks.

For example, $1,400 buys you Ableton Live full suite with a Push2 controller. This loads you up with a DAW for track production (from recording to mastering), a live performance tool, and a library of instruments with a ton of presets and customizable parameters, including a sampler that lets you load in any sound you can record. Assuming a household has $1,400 for a kid to spend on music gear, I'd bet a laptop is already available, so excluding that expense, $1,400 of software and a hardware controller opens up a lot more opportunities than $1,400 of bass gear (which would get you a decent bass and amp with accessories). It's a bit apples vs. oranges, but times have changed, as times tend to do.

Also, as noted earlier, many instruments are durable goods which don't wear out, even after decades of use. The secondary market keeps growing and growing, which has an impact on new production and prices.

As many have said, it's unfortunate to see such an icon struggling, and the problem hits the industry as a whole.

 

[Hounddog409]

I saw the article several days ago. Fender is also struggling. I think there are several reasons for this. People who grew up in the 60s, 70s and 80s remember buying used Gibson and Fender guitars and basses for $200 to $400. In the late 70s I purchased a 1972 Precision for $235 and 1978 Jazz for $275. Many bassists and guitarists my age have a difficult time justifying paying $1,500 and up for an MIA Fender and more than $2,000 for a Gibson because they remember paying much less. Yes, everything costs more but when you consider that Fender offers MIM and Squier and Gibson offers Epiphone, it's no wonder that sales of US made guitars are down. Let's say you have $700 to spend, would you buy a new MIM Fender or a used MIA? Most people would buy the used MIA. Then consider all of the competitors which have entered the market. There are many low to moderately priced European and Asian made basses that sound and play just as well, if not better, than MIA Fender and Gibson. An instrument that is taken care of will last decades and the market is now saturated with good quality used instruments. Add to that the fact that fewer young people are playing instruments and it all adds up to trouble for guitar and bass manufacturers who think that they can justify high prices just because of brand name recognition.

and how much were you making in 1972
What was the average wage, $4 an hour?

You cannot look at prices in a vacuum. Prices were lower, as we're earnings. There is a very small difference between $300 in 1972 and $700 today.

 

[Hevy T]

EB Bass 5 String 2017 T

I have a 2017 EB 4 banger!! Check my avitar!

 

[edencab]

funny I just popped into my local big box store today and since I have been listening to John Prine a bit lately I looked in the Acoustic guitar room....spotted a Gibson....$3400 Cdn....really.....WOW!!!!!...do they sell many of those?...doubt it

 

[xnewyorka]

And how many years have we heard GC was circling the drain?

There is also the fact that they are constantly adding new locations and a buttload of their existing locations recently received major remodels, which certainly does not sound like an organization on the brink of financial disaster.

Well, they are about $1.6 Billion in debt. Other than filing for bankruptcy, what other options do you see for how they can get out of that situation?

 

[Handyman]

Not surprising for me. I dated a girl whose father worked for Gibson in an upper level accounting/finance position for a very brief period of time. He said it was a sinking ship, and that was back around 2011.

Its incredible how long any medium to large sized company can draw out the inevitable. I've seen obviously doomed companies drag on for a decade or more.

Personally, I think the concept of corporate hospice care should be invented.

 

[bassestkkm]

Well... It's all very expensive from both Gibson and Epi compared to their Fender and Squier counterparts. And even more extreme when you compare Ibanez with them. They've outpriced themselves in a time where they're not really making a lot of money by doing so.

Over harvesting woods and killing off species and then replacing those with synthetic materials doesn't help their cause either. So they've lost their identity from that standpoint. Why buy fron them for that much when we can get it custom made and local for less.

 

[Eric Swaim]

Not gonna happen - even Kustom and Acoustic are still goin' strong LOL.

Acoustic is a joke compared to its roots. Now its just a name on a low quality amp. ( not to offend those who play through a newer one). I owned serveral of the older ones from the 1970's, these days I wouldnt buy one but that's just me.

I do own a Kustom Coupe 36 all tube guitar amp made in the USA back in the mid 2000's and it is my favorite gigging amp in that price range. Killer amp for the group I play guitar in ( for clarity I have owned all tube British Marshalls, Meda Boogie, Egnater, 1967 Ampeg, etc. etc.)

 

[bassliner50]

By the way , how is Guild doing? Is the quality/pricing/profitability still what it once was? My Rhode Island built G-37 is one of the best. But probably 45 years old.

 

[NOVAX]

This EB is a lover. So is that Koa Kawai. 2 of my lifers.
Sometimes, whoever it is, they just nail it!

 

[Chrisk-K]

I bought two new made in USA Gibson LP Tribute guitars last year. Each cost $899, and both of them were perfect right out of the boxes.

I think it is the poor management team that is ruining Gibson.

 

[Picton]

and how much were you making in 1972
What was the average wage, $4 an hour?

You cannot look at prices in a vacuum. Prices were lower, as we're earnings. There is a very small difference between $300 in 1972 and $700 today.

CPI says $300 in Sept 1972 is $1744.32 today.

 

[BAG]

I hear tell that Uli Behringer is looking to acquire another distressed formally high end company .

I would love to see that happen to be honest. Guitarists would have so much mental dissonance between wanting a Gibson, as most of them do, and not wanting anything made by Behringer.

 

[A-Step-Towards]

I have a 96 Les Paul Studio, bought when I was a DINK and not much understanding. I've since played several Epiphone Les Pauls that cost about the same in 2010's dollars and have much better build quality. When I see the prices of any Gibson in the Sweetwater catalog I think to myself that there's no way, even if I had the cash available, that I would pay that much for one.

Before anyone chimes in with "price is what the market will bear," I get the concept. My opinion is that they are overpriced and it makes me wonder if it is the sign of a company who is jacking prices up to make up for lost sales volume.

But it would be a sad day when a company with such a history would close its doors, same as it will be a sad day (from a nostalgia standpoint) when Sears closes its doors.

Interesting. I have had and still have a recent les Paul standard and my 1991 studio is beat and has blmany extra holes from mods over the years and it's the best one I've owned

 

[gt96g]

I happened across a 2017 gibson eb bass yesterday, it was incredibly unimpressive. As a result I don't even think I bothered looking at the price tag.

 

[Hounddog409]

CPI says $300 in Sept 1972 is $1744.32 today.

..and there you have it.

I hate it when people say gas was 50 cents a gallon or a new car was 1500..... well when you are making 75 cents an hour that $1500 car is pretty freakin expensive.

 

[madbanjoman]

I own a lefty '13 Gibson Les Paul bass, beautiful and perfectly balanced. It is my primary EB.

 

[RoadRanger]

I would love to see that happen to be honest. Guitarists would have so much mental dissonance between wanting a Gibson, as most of then do, and not wanting anything made by Behringer.

The same was true when Behringer bought Midas - "No Behringer" was on every rider but now the Behringer X32 mixer is probably the most common mixer out there in the sub-arena-sized venues .