Finger Caught On String When Raking

[lowend4life]

Hi everyone.



I noticed when I do a descending bass line/fill from a higher string, let’s say D to A, while using my middle finger, that my middle gets stuck on the lower string. I do always pick with my fingertips, however since I’m now raking, it no longer lands on the fingertip but now lands on the meatier part. That’s when I get stuck. I end up having to pluck harder, which just sounds choppy and throws off the timing.

This is also at slow tempos. So I know it's a technique issue and "just practice" will not fix this. Perfect practice makes perfect. Not practicing with bad technique.



Any advice on how to fix this?



Thank you for your time and take care!

 

[bholder]

I'm really glad this thread is about bass technique rather than a gruesome yard maintenance accident!!

 

[brianrost]

lowend4life,

The way to fix it is to look at your hand as you rake with the middle finger to see why it’s not resting on the string below. I’m assuming that when you rake with the index it’s not a problem?

 

[Lobster11]

There are folks out there who will insist that you should never rake, and instead should maintain strict alternation at all times. I'm not one of them, and I rake sometimes myself, but IME that there are definitely lines for which strict alternation works much better for me than raking.

 

[lowend4life]

lowend4life,

The way to fix it is to look at your hand as you rake with the middle finger to see why it’s not resting on the string below. I’m assuming that when you rake with the index it’s not a problem?

Thanks for your reply. Correct, when I rake with my index, it's not a problem because my index is shorter than my middle. Since my middle finger is long, once I rake with it, it lands on the lower string with more pad of my finger on string, instead of my finger tip landing.

 

[JimmyM]

There are folks out there who will insist that you should never rake, and instead should maintain strict alternation at all times. I'm not one of them, and I rake sometimes myself, but IME that there are definitely lines for which strict alternation works much better for me than raking.

I won’t say that you should never ever rake, but the OP’s problem is the exact reason why I quit raking. Dave LaRue insisted that I never rake when I took lessons, and I had an awkward couple weeks but saw it through, and it was so much easier and smoother to play faster stuff after the initial hump.

Now people will point to Jaco Pastorius raking as a reason why you should do it, but I’ve spoken to people who had lessons with him and he’d insist on no raking as well.

So I’d advise not raking and sticking with strict alternation for a good month. Then report back to us with your thoughts.

 

[UntitledProject]

Thanks for your reply. Correct, when I rake with my index, it's not a problem because my index is shorter than my middle. Since my middle finger is long, once I rake with it, it lands on the lower string with more pad of my finger on string, instead of my finger tip landing.

I assume your index is always shorter than your middle... How do you alternate when playing the same string index-middle-index... If you can successfully drag your index from one string to the next, you are able to adjust your wrist and arm to compensate for the change. You middle finger doesn't affect your index in this case. When playing with your middle finger, since it should contact the string essentially the same as your index, if you're able to alternate i-m-i-m, then the same motion that let's your index rake from the d to a string should also allow your middle to do so, as in this case your index has no bearing on your middle finger.

 

[Geepers]

Now people will point to Jaco Pastorius raking as a reason why you should do it, but I’ve spoken to people who had lessons with him and he’d insist on no raking as well.

And there’s a pretty good reason to do what the hell you want. So many pros - in any field - aren’t doing what they think they’re doing. Golf is a classic example.

 

[Carl Hillman]

And there’s a pretty good reason to do what the hell you want. So many pros - in any field - aren’t doing what they think they’re doing. Golf is a classic example.

Jaco didn't know what he was actually doing when he was raking? Or, did he do it to phrase certain notes he was playing?

I think once a player has total control over alternating their fingers, it is easier to go on 'autopilot' and rake certain notes when it sounds good to do so.

The converse is not always true. If the only way you can play from a high string to low is to rake, there will be something down the line that you will have to play that will be much harder than it needs to be.

 

[andymac]

Yeah, I have this problem. My middle is a lot longer than my index (I mean, it's true of everyone, but my difference is a lot), so I have this problem even with ordinary alternating picking.

When the tone difference is noticeable, I have to

1. angle the plucking hand away from perpendicular to the strings,
2. bring the plucking hand further up off the bass, AND
3. bend my middle while the index is straight

As you can imagine, this causes other problems, so it's always a compromise. I think the most effective thing, and the hardest to learn, has been to have my index straight and middle bent.

The raking thing might be helped by bringing your hand further up off the bass. So that the radius of swing of your finger hits both strings at the tip.

Obviously I have overthought this.

 

[lowend4life]

Yeah, I have this problem. My middle is a lot longer than my index (I mean, it's true of everyone, but my difference is a lot), so I have this problem even with ordinary alternating picking.

When the tone difference is noticeable, I have to

1. angle the plucking hand away from perpendicular to the strings,
2. bring the plucking hand further up off the bass, AND
3. bend my middle while the index is straight

As you can imagine, this causes other problems, so it's always a compromise. I think the most effective thing, and the hardest to learn, has been to have my index straight and middle bent.

The raking thing might be helped by bringing your hand further up off the bass. So that the radius of swing of your finger hits both strings at the tip.

Obviously I have overthought this.

Thanks for your helpful answer man! I greatly appreciate it.

 

[JimmyM]

And there’s a pretty good reason to do what the hell you want. So many pros - in any field - aren’t doing what they think they’re doing. Golf is a classic example.

You can do what the hell you want as long as you’re on the money with it. OP is not on the money with it. Strictly alternating will enable him to be on the money with it a lot quicker than beating his head against the wall trying to rake.

 

[wompwomp]

love raking. big part of my two finger style.

try raking your hand (or elbow) instead of your finger. like don't use your finger to rake use another reference and rake back from that.

 

[Topkat13]

Get a leaf blower.

 

[Paul New]

The “not practicing bad technique” thing is a good practice in general, but it can be taken too far. Everyone has bad technique on some aspect of their playing when learning, on any instrument. You can’t just avoid the thing that you have a problem with, you have to hammer it, slowly, until you get it.

However…I think the advice you’ve been given, to just get alternating fingers for string crossing down cold, is sound. Probably a good idea. Plenty of players alternate everything and never rake.

I used, and still use, some exercises I got from Dario Deidda that combine both string crossing techniques. Helped my awkward middle finger a lot.

 

[lowend4life]

love raking. big part of my two finger style.

try raking your hand (or elbow) instead of your finger. like don't use your finger to rake use another reference and rake back from that.

Thank you for being so helpful!

 

[JonathanPDX]

A video would be helpful to see all the angles and potential issues.

Personally I do lots of raking and have never run into any issues. I sometimes rake with two fingers, to either get two attacks on each note, or to get a ghost before or after the target note. Victor Wooten does quite a bit of sweeping both down and up, while I'm more comfortable raking down than sweeping upwards, there are lines that absolutely require raking or sweeping in order to get everything to land at tempo.

 

[UntitledProject]

Try a ramp. It will keep your fingers from being able to drop that far beneath the string.

 

[klyph]

You need to find a way to angle your hand so both fingertips are striking the strings the same way. This is something you may need a good instructor for (maybe not, up to you).

I spent a lot of time when I was younger practicing descending lines with rakes in the middle, alternating which finger I would start with, which would switch the finger making the rake. I would also practice strict alternation, but never adopted it as dogma (so to speak). Find a good angle for your hand and learn to “lead* with the middle finger. It’s served me well over the years, and you may also find it useful.

 

[lowend4life]

You need to find a way to angle your hand so both fingertips are striking the strings the same way. This is something you may need a good instructor for (maybe not, up to you).

I spent a lot of time when I was younger practicing descending lines with rakes in the middle, alternating which finger I would start with, which would switch the finger making the rake. I would also practice strict alternation, but never adopted it as dogma (so to speak). Find a good angle for your hand and learn to “lead* with the middle finger. It’s served me well over the years, and you may also find it useful.

Thank you!