Is that called a "compound radius"? Smaller radius at the nut; larger radius, getting flatter, as you move toward the bridge.
Thanks.
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Double Bass Fingerboard camber questions
- Thread starter Michael Glynn
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Thanks.
- Aug 1, 2005
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I would just call it conical as opposed to cylindrical. Of course the scoop goes into it too, so maybe a nonlinear cone?
Matthew Tucker
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Heifetzbass
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Yeah Rob, it is flatter at the nut end. So, we could call it compound, parabolic, all kinds of stuff. It's the business end near the bridge I'm most concerned about.
I thought it was flatter (larger radius) at the bridge end of the fingerboard?
Am I compound confounded?
Thanks for your time and expertise.
I have also always thought (presumed) that as the fb gets narrower towards the nut, the radius got smaller, but I suppose I am corrected. And looking at my bass, ofcourse I can now see that the fb does not curve as many degrees at the nut as at the end of the board.
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Well, the radius is smaller at the nut on my basses anyway.
Correction to (hopefully) avoid confusion:
The radius of the fingerboard is larger at the nut, but the curvature is smaller there than on the bridge end.
The radius of the fingerboard is larger at the nut, but the curvature is smaller there than on the bridge end.
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I'm completely out of it here. curvature is smaller, but the radius bigger? What does that mean?
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Joey Nager wrote a helpful article on this exact subject ('Fingerboard Geometry') that was in the second to last issue of the ISB magazine Bass World. I'd recommend it to anyone interested....
Cheers,
Paul
Cheers,
Paul
Once, for an EUB project, I ordered a moderately priced ebony fingerboard from a vendor. It needed very little dressing, and played well right out of the box. Later, I did another project, and ordered another fingerboard from the same vendor. It's shape was very similar to your second picture. It rattled a lot, especially as I played closer to the big "bump" near the end.
I held a 15" metal ruler on it's side along the length of the fingerboard, and shined a flashlight from the other side, so I could see exactly where the gaps and bumps were along each string's path. I wanted the gap to be about credit card thickness and ever so slight concave at most points in the board. Near the bottom of the fingerboard, it went convex, and the ruler teeter-tottered a millimeter or two.
It took a lot of dressing to improve this (I won't say "fix" because it was never as good as the first board. I'm not a luthier.)
It was not an expensive fingerboard, so I assume it was either poor quality control/finishing from the source or that the ebony warped or expanded a bit after it left the factory.
I held a 15" metal ruler on it's side along the length of the fingerboard, and shined a flashlight from the other side, so I could see exactly where the gaps and bumps were along each string's path. I wanted the gap to be about credit card thickness and ever so slight concave at most points in the board. Near the bottom of the fingerboard, it went convex, and the ruler teeter-tottered a millimeter or two.
It took a lot of dressing to improve this (I won't say "fix" because it was never as good as the first board. I'm not a luthier.)
It was not an expensive fingerboard, so I assume it was either poor quality control/finishing from the source or that the ebony warped or expanded a bit after it left the factory.
So with the second fingerboard, when you plucked near the end you got rattling, but after reshaping it to have the scoop go to the end, it was improved?
More or less.
Although, to clarify, the last section (around the octave, give or take) of the fingerboard is actually pretty flat. But if you're using a long ruler (or are drawing a line from end-to-end) there appears to be a gap the whole length.
I aimed for a shape like the second example in the image below:
Slight curve toward the nut, flatter toward the end of the board.
Last edited:
Hi, I have a slightly different question on fingerboard camber - many thanks in advance for any advice.
How does string tension affect the camber on double bass?
This is my story: I had my fingerboard curve adjusted by local luthier. First time we tuned the bass at his workshop, I was impressed, the ease of playing, especially on E and A string was outstanding, the tension of strings felt lighter than usual, overall feeling was softer than before. The next day I started playing and the situation was different, the tension of strings felt more stiff and I struggled playing certain tones on A and E string. I de-tuned the bass by 1 tone to see what happens. The ease of playing was back. Once I tuned the bass back to normal tuning again, the stiff feeling was back. Now I'm a bit puzzled - it seems to me like the fingerboard camber increased a little bit since I brought the bass back from the luthier. (Could neck cause it?) This "little bit" seems to affect the overall setup heavily. To illustrate better: currently the fingerboard camber is around 2-3 credit cards wide gap near the end of the neck (E string), when pressing the string down near the nut and the end of the fingerboard. It is 1 credit card gap on G string.
I am using Pirastro Obligato strings and I was considering replacing them with Thomastik Belcanto. I'm not sure if things will get even worse, when using strings with higher tension (which Belcanto's are). Any experience or input on this topic will be highly appreciated.
How does string tension affect the camber on double bass?
This is my story: I had my fingerboard curve adjusted by local luthier. First time we tuned the bass at his workshop, I was impressed, the ease of playing, especially on E and A string was outstanding, the tension of strings felt lighter than usual, overall feeling was softer than before. The next day I started playing and the situation was different, the tension of strings felt more stiff and I struggled playing certain tones on A and E string. I de-tuned the bass by 1 tone to see what happens. The ease of playing was back. Once I tuned the bass back to normal tuning again, the stiff feeling was back. Now I'm a bit puzzled - it seems to me like the fingerboard camber increased a little bit since I brought the bass back from the luthier. (Could neck cause it?) This "little bit" seems to affect the overall setup heavily. To illustrate better: currently the fingerboard camber is around 2-3 credit cards wide gap near the end of the neck (E string), when pressing the string down near the nut and the end of the fingerboard. It is 1 credit card gap on G string.
I am using Pirastro Obligato strings and I was considering replacing them with Thomastik Belcanto. I'm not sure if things will get even worse, when using strings with higher tension (which Belcanto's are). Any experience or input on this topic will be highly appreciated.
Quite possibly the "next-day"camber is the true one. I have noticed with EBs that it can take some time for a neck to settle in after new strings or a change in action setting. Higher tension strings will only make the situation worse. I suggest solo strings tuned down a whole step to standard.
Thinner / less stiff boards have that double dilemma whereby the neck is bending all wonky, so you try to plane out some of the discrepancy with the string load removed and then when you tension it all up.... it bends even more, so it gets worse. 'Similar to way off quarter fingerboards do the ski jump lift at the end of the neck that get worse the more you work on them.
I know most people only have one bass and they are anxious to get it back in working condition from their lutheir / tech....but...On my personal basses I've noticed that it usually takes three sessions of dressing the board until I settle into very very good long term results. Before that- the first one gets it in the ballpark. Three weeks later, #2 gets it and the entire setup a lot better. The final one is very subtle, but it really dials things in. Many folks lack the patience for that level of detail, so they get pretty good, but not perfect.
I generally add carbon fiber beams inside the main maple portion of the neck whenever the fingerboard comes off. For my use, they tend to stabilize thing and make the neck more consistent for the whole year. Living in North Carolina, bass necks get an @$$ whooping all year long from the crazy daily swings in humidity and temperature. I also feel like I can notice a sonic difference, but that is for another thread discussion.
I know most people only have one bass and they are anxious to get it back in working condition from their lutheir / tech....but...On my personal basses I've noticed that it usually takes three sessions of dressing the board until I settle into very very good long term results. Before that- the first one gets it in the ballpark. Three weeks later, #2 gets it and the entire setup a lot better. The final one is very subtle, but it really dials things in. Many folks lack the patience for that level of detail, so they get pretty good, but not perfect.
I generally add carbon fiber beams inside the main maple portion of the neck whenever the fingerboard comes off. For my use, they tend to stabilize thing and make the neck more consistent for the whole year. Living in North Carolina, bass necks get an @$$ whooping all year long from the crazy daily swings in humidity and temperature. I also feel like I can notice a sonic difference, but that is for another thread discussion.
Thanks everyone for your suggestions and experience.
I measured the current camber, had a call with the luthier and he said this is anyway the minimum we can go to avoid rattle and buzz. He said we also cannot lower the adjustable bridge to lower the tension, as the action is already low and bridge height is set to 15,5 cm already, which is quite low.
I tried to re-tune the bass again, this time half-tone down. The difference was there, it improved the overall feeling. I already invested quite some time and money in the bass setup, and as it is a no-name Romanian carved bass, I do not expect miracles out of it. Anyway, I am considering that the next step would be to get strings with lower tension or solos tuned down to standard tuning, as suggested by Gretsch in this thread. My current strings have 115 kg tension overall. Although this is a different topic, do you have any suggestions which set of strings I should try? As for tonal preference, I wanted Belcanto, but those are also around 115 kg. I am playing arco only.
I measured the current camber, had a call with the luthier and he said this is anyway the minimum we can go to avoid rattle and buzz. He said we also cannot lower the adjustable bridge to lower the tension, as the action is already low and bridge height is set to 15,5 cm already, which is quite low.
I tried to re-tune the bass again, this time half-tone down. The difference was there, it improved the overall feeling. I already invested quite some time and money in the bass setup, and as it is a no-name Romanian carved bass, I do not expect miracles out of it. Anyway, I am considering that the next step would be to get strings with lower tension or solos tuned down to standard tuning, as suggested by Gretsch in this thread. My current strings have 115 kg tension overall. Although this is a different topic, do you have any suggestions which set of strings I should try? As for tonal preference, I wanted Belcanto, but those are also around 115 kg. I am playing arco only.
